Luthien

[Ange1e4e5]

So I'm wonder how much of Luthien we will see in Doriath. Will she be a child? Young teen? Adult? I was thinking of a couple actresses for Luthien:

Daisy Ridley
Age: 25
Height: 5'7"
Known for: Star Wars: The Force Awakens, Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Dafne Keen as a younger Luthien
Age: 11 or 12
Known for: Logan

 

[Haerangil]

Well following logic i'd say she's a child or teen, but it would be easier for us to introduce as as a young adult. Being an elf she would stay in circle 1 after being aged 100 or so. That would be the eadiest way to handle it and introduce the actress who will depuct her in the beten storyline of later seasons..

 

[Nicholas Palazzo]

My only note on this topic is that we should try our best to find an actress that looks similar to Edith Tolkien. That is all.

 

[Ange1e4e5]

My only note on this topic is that we should try our best to find an actress that looks similar to Edith Tolkien. That is all.

True. Wasn't Luthien physically based off of Edith Tolkien?

 

[Marielle]

I don't have a candidate that matches Edith yet, but I would also request that we look at non-white and mixed-race actresses for Luthien. I know, I know, we cast two white people as her parents, and Edith was English, but still. Having Luthien and thus Dior both look like WASPs makes me ... uncomfortable. I think we could find a mix-raced actress, perhaps British-Filipino or Thai, that could look like Rachel Weitz and Paul Bettany's kid, but not be so aggressively white.

 

[Ange1e4e5]

What does WASP mean?

We could try Gal Gadot.

Age: 32
Height: 5'10"
Known for: Wonder Woman

 

[Ange1e4e5]

Let me think: Edith Tolkien looks like this, no?

 

[Nicholas Palazzo]

What does WASP mean?

It is an (often derogatory) acronym for White Anglo-Saxon Protestant.

And quite honestly, not something I think we need to be so concerned about as to need to move away from the appearance of the person who has the name Luthien on her headstone.

 

[Haerangil]

How can somebody look "agressively WASP"?

Luthien is a half Sinda/half Maia/People of Yavanna Fairie Person...

her look is quite well described in contrast to many Tolkien chatracters, she's quite pale/silver skinned, dark haired, grey Eyed. We don't know how tall she was... but she's described as tall (by what standard?).

actresses i 'd like just based of their face:

Jessica Brown Findlay:

India Eisley:

madison davenport:

Naomi Scott:

Isabelle Fuhrmann:

Kara Hayward:

just to illustrate what i mean... they have the "Lúthien-look" i think.

 

[Marielle]

It is an (often derogatory) acronym for White Anglo-Saxon Protestant.

And quite honestly, not something I think we need to be so concerned about as to need to move away from the appearance of the person who has the name Luthien on her headstone.

I don't plan on harping on this too much, and believe me, I'm sensitive to the personal nature of the relationship between Luthien & Edith for Tolkien. It's adorable, and I don't want to loose it if we can help it. But in casting Luthien, the most beautiful woman ever, we are by necessity making a statement about beauty. I'm painfully conscious about that right now, but perhaps time & discussion will ease my angst about it.

How can somebody look "agressively WASP"?

Ever seen a reality show or fictional teen drama about prep schools? 80% of the cast will be aggressively WASP. But making Luthien not look like an Academy Princess shouldn't be that difficult.

All the actresses suggested above are lovely, but going by headshot alone, I'm leaning towards Naomi Scott. But I don't know anything she's been in, and Luthien's going to be a demanding role. A stubborn kickass girl who nevertheless falls in love almost a first sight, dies of a broken heart, and then forsakes all she knows to live with her man... there's a lot of things in her story that could be cloying and cliched if writing and acting both aren't spot on.

 

[Nicholas Palazzo]

I don't plan on harping on this too much, and believe me, I'm sensitive to the personal nature of the relationship between Luthien & Edith for Tolkien. It's adorable, and I don't want to loose it if we can help it. But in casting Luthien, the most beautiful woman ever, we are by necessity making a statement about beauty. I'm painfully conscious about that right now, but perhaps time & discussion will ease my angst about it.


Ever seen a reality show or fictional teen drama about prep schools? 80% of the cast will be aggressively WASP. But making Luthien not look like an Academy Princess shouldn't be that difficult.

All the actresses suggested above are lovely, but going by headshot alone, I'm leaning towards Naomi Scott. But I don't know anything she's been in, and Luthien's going to be a demanding role. A stubborn kickass girl who nevertheless falls in love almost a first sight, dies of a broken heart, and then forsakes all she knows to live with her man... there's a lot of things in her story that could be cloying and cliched if writing and acting both aren't spot on.

I recognize the dangers here, and don't see choosing someone of any skin tone as less problematic.

But I return this to my original point. Are we prepared to say that to Tolkien, the most beautiful woman in the world was not Edith?

 

[Nicholas Palazzo]

All of this said, if I wrote a character based upon my wife, I would expect someone making a film to cast an Asian, and might be a bit irritable if they "whitewashed" her.

 

[Ange1e4e5]

So what do we do?

 

[Halstein]

So what do we do?

I have usually not much to say about casting, as I don't know much about actors. However I think that the choice of actress for Luthien should be based on:
1. Being good at acting.
2. Looking as much like Edith Tolkien as possible.
I would not be above CGI the actress face to look like Edith, if it could be made to look good. Moff Tarkin in Star Wars make me uneasy about this, because he looked somewhat off to me. It might be, because I knew the actor was dead, because the children of one of my friends did not notice.

I also agree with Nicholas Palazzo, that what would we say to Tolkien? I might have to much respect to Tolkien, or a whisky to much. This is my view, and I will stand by it.
And when somebody say WASP, I think: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W.A.S.P.

 

[Ange1e4e5]

Well, part of the challenge is having her look like she could be the child of

Paul Bettany

And Rachel Weisz

 

[Haerangil]

Well i believe weisz was cast with having luthiens mother or an older lookinh luthien in mind.

 

[Ange1e4e5]

What age are we talking about for Luthien?

 

[Haerangil]

I suppose a woman in her early twenties... Though luthien really is 3340.

Beren is in his early thirties and looks older, he already has some grey hair .

 

[Marielle]

I recognize the dangers here, and don't see choosing someone of any skin tone as less problematic.

But I return this to my original point. Are we prepared to say that to Tolkien, the most beautiful woman in the world was not Edith?

I see a distinction between "white vs. other skin tones" as statements of beauty, outside cultural factors taken into account, but I acknowledge and submit to the second point. This is a thoughtful, intelligent, and subtle group -- if I'm the only one worried about this, I suspect my concerns are overblown.

I have usually not much to say about casting, as I don't know much about actors. However I think that the choice of actress for Luthien should be based on:
1. Being good at acting.
2. Looking as much like Edith Tolkien as possible.
I would not be above CGI the actress face to look like Edith, if it could be made to look good. Moff Tarkin in Star Wars make me uneasy about this, because he looked somewhat off to me. It might be, because I knew the actor was dead, because the children of one of my friends did not notice.

I also agree with Nicholas Palazzo, that what would we say to Tolkien? I might have to much respect to Tolkien, or a whisky to much. This is my view, and I will stand by it.
And when somebody say WASP, I think: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W.A.S.P.

Not sure if I'm comfortable with putting CGI on the table just yet, if only because it might make us lazy 😉

But I do agree that acting chops are paramount here. Most Hollywood leading ladies are beautiful, but the confidence and "attitude" -- meaning the old sense, not the teenager one -- of Luthien is special. Part of her being "the most beautiful ever" will be in people's response to it: they'll respond to her as if she were, which should help sell it to the audience, so long as there's not a substantial differential between her and another actress (cough, Snow White and the Huntsman, cough).

 

[Ange1e4e5]

What's the joke with Snow White and the Huntsman? I've never seen it.

But we should stick closer to the text when it comes to coloring.