Rog

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
I have realized i had started to spam other topics with my ideas about this character, so to avoid any further distraction i now give him his own topic.

As Faelivrin has pointed out Gondolin goes through various stages, i always wanted to try to preserve what i liked about the lost tales material and try to incorporate and adjust what is necessary to uphold older concepts.

Rog is one of my favourite characters, so i have tried to write a short sum up or biograohy for him:

Rog had early been an early and loyal follower of House Fingolfin and been among those elves who had been captured and enslaved during the Dagor Bragollach.Along with Gwindor son of Guilin he was among the few Thrall-Noldoli who ever escaped from the prisons of Angband.He eventually found his way to Dor-Lomin where he joined Fingon the Valiant on whose side he fought in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad.After the death of his lord he was among a number of Noldor from Dor-Lomin who were accepted by Turgon the Wise and taken back with him to Gondolin, where Rog rose in renown and became head of one of the cities twelve Great Houses.

Rog had been a tall and muscular Noldo-smith, after his imprisonment he preserved his
strong arms and brawny build, but his back had become hunched, his hair had turned to grey, his face was disfigured and scarred from imprisonment and slavery, but he still maintained an unbroken spirit and the noble and proud bearing of his house.
 
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MithLuin

Well-Known Member
I think we will want to get Rog to Gondolin much earlier than the aftermath of the Unnumbered Tears, and I think that we will definitely want to rename him.

But that aside, he is one of my favorite characters from the Fall of Gondolin, too, and I would love to preserve him in our adaptation.

Here is a friend of mine cosplaying Rog:


https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10104381842299885&set=pb.18410348.-2207520000.1541637818.&type=3&theater
Costume by: Crystal George
Photo by: Ethereous Photography
Costume design by: vrolokya @ deviant art
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
I think we will want to get Rog to Gondolin much earlier than the aftermath of the Unnumbered Tears, and I think that we will definitely want to rename him.

But that aside, he is one of my favorite characters from the Fall of Gondolin, too, and I would love to preserve him in our adaptation.

Here is a friend of mine cosplaying Rog:


https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10104381842299885&set=pb.18410348.-2207520000.1541637818.&type=3&theater
Costume by: Crystal George
Photo by: Ethereous Photography
Costume design by: vrolokya @ deviant art
Perhaps we have Rog as a latecomer to Gondolin, and set him as a foil to Maeglin as he was captured in Angband, didn’t crack, and didn’t become a traitor to the Elves, as Maeglin did. Maeglin even tried to rape Idril. They even have somewhat similar colors; there’s a few images on TolkienGateway that feature Maeglin wearing red and black, as Rog does.
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
Sure... Rog sounds too orcish, I already supposed Roka or Rhogrin as possible alternate names.., but yeah, sure that's just my personal fanfic story about Rog what i posted before.

Its just what i think we have started talking about in the "seeds" thread... if we now introduce characters which, supposedly always were there and just never really appeared, like Glorfindel or Ecthelion (or Enerdhil for that sake), we could try to invent shortbios for them, just to imagine what they might have done before, where they had been and how they ended up being here now of a sudden.
 

Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
I whole-heartedly agree about keeping what we can from the Lost Tales. Lots of that early material either contradicts the LotR and later Silmarillion stories, or is just unsuited in style. Nonetheless, I think there is stuff we can keep, with small adjustments. Rog seems to work fine as a character, except his name.

Keep in mind that if he is present in Gondolin earlier then he has to be enslaved and escape to Nevrast only very shortly after the Dagor Aglareb, that is, his capture and escape must both be in this season. I do think that could be feasible. If we use Haerangil's backstory for him, then we have more time in which to introduce him.

The advantage of doing it all this season is that Rog's capture and escape can be combined with the capture(s) and escape(s) of whoever ends up under the Spell of Bottomless Dread and becoming a collaborator. And/or his story can be told alongside Orodreth's, if we have him captured-and-weakened-but-not-turned-collaborator.


And here's the post I made with possible replacement names: https://forums.signumuniversity.org/index.php?threads/session-4-03-frame-narrative-for-season-4.3048/page-3#post-22851

(We may also need to rename some of the other lords of Gondolin: Duilin should probably be Tuilinn, Legolas is a confusing name, Galdor might get confusing, and Salgant might not fit LotR-style Sindarin.)
 
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Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
I whole-heartedly agree about keeping what we can from the Lost Tales. Lots of that early material either contradicts the LotR and later Silmarillion stories, or is just unsuited in style. Nonetheless, I think there is stuff we can keep, with small adjustments. Rog seems to work fine as a character, except his name.

Keep in mind that if he is present in Gondolin earlier then he has to be enslaved and escape to Nevrast only very shortly after the Dagor Aglareb, that is, his capture and escape must both be in this season. I do think that could be feasible. If we use Haerangil's backstory for him, then we have more time in which to introduce him.

The advantage of doing it all this season is that Rog's capture and escape can be combined with the capture(s) and escape(s) of whoever ends up under the Spell of Bottomless Dread and becoming a collaborator. And/or his story can be told alongside Orodreth's, if we have him captured-and-weakened-but-not-turned-collaborator.


And here's the post I made with possible replacement names: https://forums.signumuniversity.org/index.php?threads/session-4-03-frame-narrative-for-season-4.3048/page-3#post-22851
We cannot have Elves under the Spell of Bottomless Dread be amongst the Gondolodrim. Otherwise, Gondolin will have fallen a lot sooner.
 

Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
I agree! I mean that during this season we can have Rog, Orodreth, and some hapless shmuck all get captured at the same time (during Dagor Aglareb perhaps) and all escape in the same jail-break. But after escaping they'd all go their separate ways: Orodreth to Dorthonion, Rog to Nevrast, and the hapless guy under the Spell of Bottomless Dread would end up somewhere other than Nevrast.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Well, the text says that the tower of Minas Tirith, which Orodreth was in charge of until FA 457, was built in FA 60 by Finrod, who gave it to Orodreth in FA 102. So Orodreth has to be out of Angband no later than this date.
 

amysrevenge

Well-Known Member
Well yes, but... something like that is exactly the kind of place where we can fudge dates to our liking. As long as Finrod gets out of Minas Tirith in time to do what he has to do elsewhere, and it's ready for Sauron to take over when that comes, what does it matter if that date shifts all over the place?
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Well yes, but... something like that is exactly the kind of place where we can fudge dates to our liking. As long as Finrod gets out of Minas Tirith in time to do what he has to do elsewhere, what does it matter if that date shifts all over the place?
Wrong guy. Orodreth gets stuck in Angband, not Finrod. Finrod starts constructing Nargothrond in FA 52.
 

Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
I don't agree with changing the order of events. But I think we wouldn't need to. If Minas Tirith is built in the same year as Dagor Aglareb, and Orodreth isn't installed there until 102, that's no tighter a timeline than for Rog. Rog has to go to Gondolin with his people in 116.*

* Unless we use the backstory Haerangil proposed.
 
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Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
I don't agree with changing the order of events. But I think we wouldn't need to. If Minas Tirith is built in the same year as Dagor Aglareb, and Orodreth isn't installed there until 102, that's no tighter a timeline than for Rog. Rog has to go to Gondolin with his people in 116.
I know that there is a suggestion to switch the Dagor Agraleb and when Thingol finds about the Kinslaying, which I disagree with. I think that Thingol’s edict could be suspense enough leading up to the Dagor Agraleb, with doubts that one group would show up or not because of the Noldor’s actions (on Thingol’s side) or the Ban itself (on the Noldor’s side).
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
Well one could try to adjust some of the names from gnomush into Sindarin... though i am not an expert in elven languages. Salgant was revised by jrtt as Talagand i think and we should use that form.

The quenya names as used in the pubsil such as Voronwe and Aranwe though should stay the way they are, otherwisely it would just be too confusing.we alredy chose not to use the noldors original quenya names already for pretty much the same reason.
 

Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
Cross-posting another option I mentioned on another thread: Rog is one of the people of Fingolfin & Fingon. He's captured and escapes in the same story as Orodreth and [the poor hapless schmuck], but goes back to Hithlum instead of Nevrast. That gives us at least one side character in Hithlum. Later, during the Nirnaeth he's one of the forces of Fingon who retreates with Turgon into Gondolin, and he has enough survivors with him to form the core of a House in Gondolinn.
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
Nice option too... i would like to sjed some light on those escaping noldor, and teaming up rog with Gwindor would give us an opportunity to build up and flesh out "rog" (whatever name we will give him)
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Nice option too... i would like to sjed some light on those escaping noldor, and teaming up rog with Gwindor would give us an opportunity to build up and flesh out "rog" (whatever name we will give him)
How would he team up with Gwindor?
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
Just for the escape.. i wouldn't wonder if a group or number of elves somehow escape from the mines or quarries but get separated of the run.

Like prison break you know..
 

Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
Sorry, that isn't going to work out.
Rog has to escape and rejoin his people before the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, in order to get into Gondolin at all.
But Gwindor is captured in the Nirnaeth, and escapes alone later.
 
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