Rog

dietlbomb

Member
Rog was an Elf-lord of Gondolin who is exclusive to Lost Tales and one of the strongest Noldor, notable for a one-syllable name and those under his command killed numerous Balrogs (when Balrogs were a lot weaker in Tolkien’s writings). KIA during the Fall of Gondolin.
So the point is that he's a blank slate upon which we can craft an interesting story? I like!
 

Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
Rog isn't really a blank slate, though he only has a (short) backstory and description in the Lost Tales. Haerangil's post uses that backstory while incorporating it into the LotR-compatible Silmarillion framework.


*Edit: The lords of Gondolin, and some stuff about them from the Lost Tales:

Glorfindel: Lord of the House of the Golden Flower. Dies slaying a Balrog in the Crissaegrim. [In the LotR, was reincarnated and sent back to Middle-earth, where he makes Ringwraiths wet themselves. :p]
Ecthelion: Lord of the House of the Fountain. A skilled singer and flute-player, dies slaying a Balrog with his helmet.
Duilin: Lord of the House of the Swallow. A swift runner and the keenest archer. Shot down off the battlements.
Egalmoth: Lord of the House of the Heavenly Arch (rainbow), a very wealthy house. An archer and swordsman. Survived Gondolin, but was slain at the Havens of Sirion.
Galdor: Lord of the House of the Tree. The most valiant after Turgon, survived and went to Eressea.
Penlod: Lord of the House of the Pillar and the House of the Tower of Snow. Slain in the streets.
Rog: Lord of the House of the Hammer of Wrath. A former thrall escaped from Angband, whose house had "many of the best smiths and craftsmen", and multiple escaped thralls. Strong and valiant, he and all his house were slain upon Tumladen.
Salgant [Talagand in later writing]: Lord of the House of the Harp. A kind-hearted coward who fails to actually fight, and gets killed or captured.
Maeglin: Lord of the House of the Mole.
Tuor: Lord of the House of the (swan) Wing.
 
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Haerangil

Well-Known Member
The name Duilin DOES appear in the lord of the rings as the name of a Gondorian noble, i'm just saying...
I tend to be reluctant with reconstructed forms and names.
 

MithLuin

Well-Known Member
So, to revisit this thread....it looks like Rog will be introduced in Season 4 of Silm Film, as one of the early captives who escapes Angband, and serves Fingolfin/Fingon before relocating to Gondolin after the Unnumbered Tears.

We do need to pick a name for him at some point. Not everyone thinks Rog is terrible and must be changed, so, one option is to name him...Rog.

Personally, I dislike that option a lot, and would much rather rename him. Keeping an 'R' somewhere in his name would make it easier, but I'm not sure what meaning (if any) I would want to preserve.

I know there have been a bunch of suggestions already. Does anyone have a favorite?

I'm also fine with giving him another name from Gondolin, since we won't use all of the minor characters there. That might imply we've merged the two characters rather than simply renamed Rog, but that's fine, too.

I suppose his name should be Sindarin, so, hmmmm....

"Gurth" = Death, if we wanted something equally short and not wholly unlike his given name. But...who names their kid 'death'? I don't think this is an improvement!

"Guren" = My Heart, which is a much nicer concept. ;) There also might be a hint in there of giving a warning or having a foreboding, which works if we use his character to escape Angband and warn the Noldor of an imminent attack.

"Rodon" = noble, lofty, excellent (=Vala) Obviously I wouldn't recommend reusing the names of any of the actual Valar, but this is an obscure enough reference as few people would have reason to say 'Valar' in Sindarin. And since Rog is problematic because the sounds show up in words like Balrog (and Morgoth), this is a nice way to slip around to a nicer meaning.

"Romru" = sound of horns

Oh, and we should totally rename someone *othestannen adj. “infamous, of evil name, (lit.) ill-named”!
 

amysrevenge

Well-Known Member
And since Rog is problematic because the sounds show up in words like Balrog (and Morgoth), this is a nice way to slip around to a nicer meaning.
Is that maybe thinking too hard about it? I've got a friend named Stan, and nobody seems to link him with Satan. Or any of the Asian countries ending in "-stan" either for that matter.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
I think I’m warming to Rog but maybe we could do something with dond or donn (I could be mistaken but it is supposed to mean ‘fist’, especially associated with punching). It has a good sound and isn’t in the most notable evil names.
 

amysrevenge

Well-Known Member
Is that maybe thinking too hard about it? I've got a friend named Stan, and nobody seems to link him with Satan. Or any of the Asian countries ending in "-stan" either for that matter.
Thinking back on it, my high school biology teacher was a devout Christian named Lucifer.
 

amysrevenge

Well-Known Member
Do Elves do shortened nicknames? It's literally never occurred to me before this second. Do they always say every Elf's full name every time? Shortened nicknames seem like a hasty human thing, but then in the heat of battle shouting "FIN" gets your target's attention faster than "FINGOL-" oops you got stabbed before finishing.
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
No, i think "Rog" might be what the Orcs call him in proson... in Lost Tales "Rog" was their nickname for Berens father too..

But elves and nicknames? Sure! Maglors nick was "Kano", Amros "Telvo", Amras "Pityo",..
 
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Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Do Elves do shortened nicknames? It's literally never occurred to me before this second. Do they always say every Elf's full name every time? Shortened nicknames seem like a hasty human thing, but then in the heat of battle shouting "FIN" gets your target's attention faster than "FINGOL-" oops you got stabbed before finishing.
Not really.
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
Fëanáro Curufinwës nick was Fëanor..
i vaguely remember there was a shortform of Fingolfin "Golfin" or Finwë "Finn"..
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Shortened nicknames seem like a hasty human thing, but then in the heat of battle shouting "FIN" gets your target's attention faster than "FINGOL-" oops you got stabbed before finishing.

I'm sorry, but I'm super amused that you chose what may be the least appropriate example, given how many characters you could wind up summoning that way. :)
 
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