amysrevenge
Well-Known Member
I know I was looking for the biggest mouthful. Celebrimbor would have been even more of a mouthful but only a little better haha.
Rog
- Thread starter Haerangil
- Start date
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
Mostly, it made me laugh because of how many times I mangled the "Fin" names on camera in past seasons.
MithLuin
Well-Known Member
The short answer is that of course elves have nicknames, but we'll only use them in this project if we only use their nickname.
So...we get to call him 'Maedhros'. We don't get to call him Maitimo (Well-formed One, his mother-name), Nelyafinwë (Third Finwë, his father-name), Nelyo (nickname of father-name), Russandol (Coppertop, affectionate nickname family and friends use). One solution to the 'Fin' problem is to use everyone's nickname, as that removes the 'Finwë' portion from most names.
But we will call Gil-galad by that name, which was an official nickname, rather than whatever name he would have had before that. Gil-galad means 'starlight' (or at least that is the translation given in Lord of the Rings, so we're going with that).
I am fine with his name being Rhogrin, and then having the orcs call him Rog in prison. Probably with him pointing out that 'It's Rhogrin' when that happens.
So...we get to call him 'Maedhros'. We don't get to call him Maitimo (Well-formed One, his mother-name), Nelyafinwë (Third Finwë, his father-name), Nelyo (nickname of father-name), Russandol (Coppertop, affectionate nickname family and friends use). One solution to the 'Fin' problem is to use everyone's nickname, as that removes the 'Finwë' portion from most names.
But we will call Gil-galad by that name, which was an official nickname, rather than whatever name he would have had before that. Gil-galad means 'starlight' (or at least that is the translation given in Lord of the Rings, so we're going with that).
I am fine with his name being Rhogrin, and then having the orcs call him Rog in prison. Probably with him pointing out that 'It's Rhogrin' when that happens.
Haerangil
Well-Known Member
Of course we'll have an elvish dubbed version, where everything will be translated into Quenya and Sindarin, and in that version they'll not only address each other in their proper Quenya and Sindarin name forms but they'll also use their proper nicks in private dialogue.. but that additional "elf-dub" will only come out withnthe release of the special dvd edition..
And i know somebody who is already learni g neo-valarin to do the 1st season translation work...
And i know somebody who is already learni g neo-valarin to do the 1st season translation work...
MithLuin
Well-Known Member
I know guys who go by Dick, so yeah, it's easy enough to separate names from unfortunate connotations in English (if you aren't in Middle School), but since the audience isn't familiar with Elvish languages, we are going to have to help them out by making choices that don't conflate things that shouldn't be conflated. 'Rog' does not sound like the name of an elf in Tolkien's later writing, and definitely looks like the type of name he would have changed himself (it's from the 1920 Fall of Gondolin) in bringing the story to more Lord of the Rings-era elvish names and conceptions. Had he, you know, ever done that himself. *ahem* I'm not upset about that at all. Nope, 'The Coming of Tuor to Gondolin' being a completely unfinished work that never even got to the good part of the story isn't the least bit disappointing. Not at all.
But anyway, yes, I think that we should at the very least strongly consider 'updating' the name Rog. It's not the end of the world if we use it as-is, though.
HAHA, yes, please this! That would be awesome. The 'so, we hear you're a purist....' edition!
I would much prefer to rename Rog, because it just isn't a name Tolkien would have used in LotR-compatible Sindarin, and I think it sounds funny. But I do like the suggestion that the Orcs call him that.
I made a bunch of suggestions here, based on the meaning "Rog" had in Lost Tales-era Goldogrin, and words with similar meanings in Sindarin:
I made a bunch of suggestions here, based on the meaning "Rog" had in Lost Tales-era Goldogrin, and words with similar meanings in Sindarin:
Of those my favorite is Alagon, followed by Legrin. Bellas and Lagor are maybe tied for my third favorite. I think Thalion, Tu, Celeg, and Dorn would best be avoided.
MithLuin
Well-Known Member
The advantage of Rhogrin is that people will be able to hear the name and realize, 'Oh, that's Rog.' While I like Legrin well enough as an elvish name in general, there isn't much about it that ties it back to the character of Rog.
Granted, whatever we name him, by the time he gets to Gondolin and is founding a house called the Hammer of Wrath, people will figure it out. So, I'm not too worried about that. It's just...that's not until Season 7, so...it's really a question of whether or not we want to go through Seasons 4-6 with him looking like an 'invented' original character, and not have the audience recognize him until after the Unnumbered Tears.
Granted, whatever we name him, by the time he gets to Gondolin and is founding a house called the Hammer of Wrath, people will figure it out. So, I'm not too worried about that. It's just...that's not until Season 7, so...it's really a question of whether or not we want to go through Seasons 4-6 with him looking like an 'invented' original character, and not have the audience recognize him until after the Unnumbered Tears.
What does "Rhogrin" mean in Sindarin?
I hadn't thought about making the character recognizeable from the Lost Tales before he gets to Gondolin. Everything about him in the Lost Tales is something he won't acquire soon... except that name.
Or... is Gondolin the only place that has noble houses with their own heraldry? I'd think other Noldorin courts do too, we just don't know what they are. Can he make the Hammer of Wrath his personal symbol in this season after his escape? Maybe he starts gathering escaped captives who have nowhere else to go, or even advocating for them when other people start to say they should be turned away.
Maybe it's only his personal symbol until the Nirnaeth, when his House is formed from the rag-tag band of survivors from Fingon's people.
I hadn't thought about making the character recognizeable from the Lost Tales before he gets to Gondolin. Everything about him in the Lost Tales is something he won't acquire soon... except that name.
Or... is Gondolin the only place that has noble houses with their own heraldry? I'd think other Noldorin courts do too, we just don't know what they are. Can he make the Hammer of Wrath his personal symbol in this season after his escape? Maybe he starts gathering escaped captives who have nowhere else to go, or even advocating for them when other people start to say they should be turned away.
Maybe it's only his personal symbol until the Nirnaeth, when his House is formed from the rag-tag band of survivors from Fingon's people.
Ange1e4e5
Well-Known Member
Found this on emblems and heraldry.
http://www.forodrim.org/gobennas/heraldry/heraldry.htm#note1
http://www.forodrim.org/gobennas/heraldry/heraldry.htm#note1
Haerangil
Well-Known Member
Rhôg means strength in early noldorin (noldrian sindarin precursor) and rîm means remembrence or crowned by something in Sindarin. So Rhogrin IS a workable neo-sindarin name...
On Heraldry..
Ive found some cool people on the internet who actually redid the houses of gondolin coats of arms BUT in tolkien-sigil style... i'll look if i can find those pages..
On Heraldry..
Ive found some cool people on the internet who actually redid the houses of gondolin coats of arms BUT in tolkien-sigil style... i'll look if i can find those pages..
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