Session 4.02 - Season 4 Episode Outlines

[MithLuin]

Hello again, everyone! Welcome back to the Silmarillion Film Project Season 4.

Today's discussion focused on the scope of Season 4, which will begin in Beleriand after the rising of the Sun, and end with the appearance of Glaurung the Dragon. The overall theme will be focused on forgiveness and reconciliation.

Corey Olsen has expressed some concerns about this season, that it might be a bit boring with nothing much happening outside the establishment of realms and building cities. So, it is up to us to work out what these 13 episodes would look like and convince both him and ourselves that what we are planning is compelling television (for an audience that is not entirely made up of dwarves who find building cities to be fascinating).

Some guidelines:

The first half of the season should focus on the Sindar/Noldor conflict, and should come to a head when Thingol discovers the truth of the Kinslaying. The second half of the season should focus on building realms in peace as a result of Ulmo's visions. The dividing point should be the Dagor Aglareb.

We need to figure out what the dwarf storyline for the season is (with a focus on the petty-dwarves). We need to figure out the villain's storyline - whose idea was the Dagor Aglareb, anyway? Whose fault is it that Glaurung gets out early? Also the villains can tease the introduction of Men in the next season.

Oh, and the Mereth Aderthad is going to be hosted at Nevrast.


Session 2 will be on Friday November 2nd, so we have a few weeks to come up with some ideas of how to outline the episodes in this Season. Once we do that, we will be moving on to the Frame.

 

[MithLuin]

Alcarohtar's earlier breakdown of what a Season 4 with this scope would include:


S4: Awakening of men - Men entering Beleriand

• • Beleriand stuff (Noldor and Sindar):
    
    • Eöl, Thingol and Nan Elmoth
      
      
    • Fingon rescues Maedhros
      
      
    • Crowning of Fingolfin
      
      
    • Thingol grants the north to the Noldor as a gift for helping them against Morgoth (Hithlum, Nevrast, Dorthonion, Himring, Thargelion)
      
      
    • Sons of Fëanor moving east
      
      
    • Mereth Aderthad
      
      
    • Ulmo’s visions to Finrod and Turgon
      
      
    • The children of Finarfin are guests in Doriath
      
      
    • Nulukkizdîn discovered by Finrod (Mîm tossed)
      
      
    • Turgon finds Tumladen
      
      
    • Dagor Aglareb
      
      • Construction of Minas Tirith (Tol Sirion)
        
        
      • Siege of Angband
        
        
      • Building of Barad Eithel
    • Turgon moving his people from Nevrast to Gondolin in secret
      
      
    • Galadriel tells of the Silmarils
      
      
    • Gondolin and Nargothrond completed
      
      
    • Thingol learns of the Kinslaying and the death of his brother, he bans Quenya
      
      
    • Orcs attack Hithlum from Lammoth/Drengist
      
      • After this defeat and the Dagor Aglareb Morgoth start to make Dragons
        
        
      • Finrod builds the Barad Minras tower to watch the sea (if morgoth had marines)
    • Glaurung is set loose and defeated on Ard-Galen, the Long Peace begins
      
      
    • Finrod meets the house of Bëor in Ossiriand
  • Tom Bombadil scene
    
    
  • Amrod/Amras stuff?

 

[Ange1e4e5]

Hello again, everyone! Welcome back to the Silmarillion Film Project Season 4.

Today's discussion focused on the scope of Season 4, which will begin in Beleriand after the rising of the Sun, and end with the appearance of Glaurung the Dragon. The overall theme will be focused on forgiveness and reconciliation.

Corey Olsen has expressed some concerns about this season, that it might be a bit boring with nothing much happening outside the establishment of realms and building cities. So, it is up to us to work out what these 13 episodes would look like and convince both him and ourselves that what we are planning is compelling television (for an audience that is not entirely made up of dwarves who find building cities to be fascinating).

Some guidelines:

The first half of the season should focus on the Sindar/Noldor conflict, and should come to a head when Thingol discovers the truth of the Kinslaying. The second half of the season should focus on building realms in peace as a result of Ulmo's visions. The dividing point should be the Dagor Aglareb.

We need to figure out what the dwarf storyline for the season is (with a focus on the petty-dwarves). We need to figure out the villain's storyline - whose idea was the Dagor Aglareb, anyway? Whose fault is it that Glaurung gets out early? Also the villains can tease the introduction of Men in the next season.

Oh, and the Mereth Aderthad is going to be hosted at Nevrast.


Session 2 will be on Friday November 2nd, so we have a few weeks to come up with some ideas of how to outline the episodes in this Season. Once we do that, we will be moving on to the Frame.

We could make Glaurung getting out early as part of the Sauron/Gothmog rivalry, with one (I’m not sure who) deciding to use the best and newest weapon in the box so to speak. Maybe Gothmog, since Sauron seems to concern himself with the Orcs more, judging by his creatures like trolls in the Lord of the Rings (apart from the Fell-Beasts).

 

[MithLuin]

Since the early release of Glaurung is a strategic error, we should assign that to someone who is not a mastermind/genius. Morgoth is stated to be angry about it in the book, because he doesn't like his hand being revealed early. So, yeah...sounds more Gothmog than Sauron, but could also be Glaurung himself making a bid for freedom/escape or Boldog or someone lower on the totem pole blundering about.

Here is what I currently have as a working visual of what needs to happen with all of the characters this season. If desired, I can add more characters or color code it in some way. And of course, I can shift things around as we flush out storylines and make more decisions.

 

[Ange1e4e5]

We could have Sauron mucking about corrupting Men in the East, since he goes unheard of from being castellen of Angband until Morgoth’s return and the next time we hear of him is in the Dagor Bragollach where he takes Tol Sirion. It could be a set-up for Sauron’s corruption of Numenor, where he encourages the worship of Melkor (read: not Morgoth).

Have we talked about creating Orcs yet?

While this is going on, Morgoth works on Dragons. Or do we have Morgoth corrupting Men and Sauron working on Dragons?

Also, setting up a folder for casting and starting a discussion of who needs to be cast this season would be nice.

 

[Alcarohtar]

I think Sauron would be corrupting men. I think we had him try to make the lost elves into worshipers of Melkor, but Morgoth made them into orcs instead. So it seems more likely that Sauron would try that experiment again, than Melkor would suddely go back to making followers instead of continuing to make monsters.
Maybe Sauron could be dropping hints of the project. To the end of the season maybe also about some of "them" rebelling?

 

[Ange1e4e5]

I think Sauron would be corrupting men. I think we had him try to make the lost elves into worshipers of Melkor, but Morgoth made them into orcs instead. So it seems more likely that Sauron would try that experiment again, than Melkor would suddely go back to making followers instead of continuing to make monsters.
Maybe Sauron could be dropping hints of the project. To the end of the season maybe also about some of "them" rebelling?

Have we ever talked about the process of making Elves into Orcs?

 

[amysrevenge]

That would be Season 2

 

[MithLuin]

Yes, the Super Secret Necromantic Orc Project was something Sauron undertook in Season 2. When Morgoth returned in Season 3, he immediately took over the project and took it in a different direction. So, we got orcs immediately thereafter.

Tolkien had Morgoth abandon the war in Beleriand at this time to go visit the Men in the east and corrupt them. It's one of his few trips outside the fortress of Angband from now on. So, we *may* consider having a 'where's Morgoth?' mystery for the first half of Season 4, while Gothmog and Sauron carry on in his absence (again).

But I agree that it's in character and gives Sauron something to do to have the mysterious absence be his rather than Morgoth's. I'm honestly fine with either variation, as both have some intriguing consequences. Since we aren't going to show the corruption of Men directly, we don't have to go into too much detail here. We *will* see Sauron at work in Numenor up close and personal, so there's opportunities for that later.

We will want to tease the arrival of Men via the Angband story line, of course.

 

[Ange1e4e5]

Yes, the Super Secret Necromantic Orc Project was something Sauron undertook in Season 2. When Morgoth returned in Season 3, he immediately took over the project and took it in a different direction. So, we got orcs immediately thereafter.

Tolkien had Morgoth abandon the war in Beleriand at this time to go visit the Men in the east and corrupt them. It's one of his few trips outside the fortress of Angband from now on. So, we *may* consider having a 'where's Morgoth?' mystery for the first half of Season 4, while Gothmog and Sauron carry on in his absence (again).

But I agree that it's in character and gives Sauron something to do to have the mysterious absence be his rather than Morgoth's. I'm honestly fine with either variation, as both have some intriguing consequences. Since we aren't going to show the corruption of Men directly, we don't have to go into too much detail here. We *will* see Sauron at work in Numenor up close and personal, so there's opportunities for that later.

We will want to tease the arrival of Men via the Angband story line, of course.

I’m thinking of a line about Morgoth doing something in the East (or Sauron if we decide). But if we have Morgoth in the East, does Sauron make the dragons?

What do you think of my suggestion for a casing sub folder for Season 4?

 

[Haakon]

I think that Morgoth will be making the dragons. The events in the East will likely be referred to or suggested but not explicitly shown.

Let's hold on with the casting stuff for a while, until the outline in set.

 

[Haakon]

Corey wanted Fingon to rescue Maedhros in episode one. I have been saying that it should happen in E2 but I guess that with a proper buildup it could work. I think we just have to make sure that there's enough tension and uncertainty before we see what Fingon is up to, before we see him succeeding and before they return with Thorondor and everyone is happy.
So the Feast of reuniting could be in E2. I see you're thinking MithLuin that Celeborn and Galadriel perhaps attend as a couple? Not sure what you're suggesting. But I suggest that they meet there. I came up with the idea that Galadriel sees the ships of the Falathrim and that it makes her confess to Celeborn about the Kinslaying. Maybe that process doesn't go that fast. Perhaps she sees the Falathrim arrive to the Feast in their ships and that shakes her, and Celeborn is present and although nothing is spoken about what happens or how she feels and why, he suspects that she's carrying a burden or wound and he is considerate and acts in a way that makes her fall in love with him, or begin to. Later on, she can confide in him, and eventually talk to Thingol and Melian. I think that such a bittersweet moment in the Feast could make it more watchable, give it more substance, or we'd just have people partying. (Yes I know we're not really going into that kind of detail at this point.)

About Eöl: Do we now use our old ideas from season 3? Do they work at this point? We could just put him among the dwarves, making him a friend of Telchar's.

 

[Nicholas Palazzo]

Perhaps she sees the Falathrim arrive to the Feast in their ships and that shakes her, and Celeborn is present and although nothing is spoken about what happens or how she feels and why, he suspects that she's carrying a burden or wound and he is considerate and acts in a way that makes her fall in love with him, or begin to.

I like this. It's very Eowyn and Faramir.

 

[Ange1e4e5]

We’ll definitely be doing some timeline juggling with Maedhros and explain how and why he wasn’t rescued until five years after the rising of the Sun. Plus, how does he survive there just hanging by his arm without food or water for 5+ years?

If they don’t find him for years, they look stupid. If they know he’s there and don’t do anything, they look cowardly and/or apathetic.

 

[MithLuin]

I think the Feast of Reuniting has to be in Episode 3 or 4. The Sindar have had no contact with the Noldor yet. And, well...the Noldor need to move into Beleriand, establish themselves, and word has to get to Thingol...there's things that need to happen before we get to the Feast.

I think Haakon is right - the first episode can culminate in the rescue of Maedhros, but we really need to build up to it and establish the tension between the Host of Fingolfin and the Fëanoreans. We need to show how Fingon solves the problem, so...the audience needs to know what the problem is.

And, well....if we *end* with Maedhros' rescue, then that means that Episode 2 needs to be focused on making Fingolfin High King. It gives Maedhros a chance to physically recover from his ordeal enough to be up and about and talking. He has to get his brothers in line, and then shock everyone by acclaiming Fingolfin as High King.

So.....

Season 4 Overview


Episode 1

Meeting of the two camps - Host of Fingolfin and Host of Fëanor

Fingon rescues Maedhros

Morgoth starts searching for the Second Children


Episode 2

Círdan meets the Noldor

Fingolfin acclaimed as High King of the Noldor


Episode 3

Thingol learns of the Noldor

Angrod and Galadriel travel with Celeborn to Doriath

Official granting of lands outside Doriath

Fëanoreans move East


Episode 4

Feast of Reuniting

Morgoth (or Sauron?) finds Men in the East

 

[Haakon]

Ok, Fingolfin has to be made High King before he can celebrate. But to me the following episodes look a bit empty, so we have to fill them out. I expanded a bit on what MithLuin started:

Episode 1
Meeting of the two camps - Host of Fingolfin and Host of Fëanor. Tension. Fingon disappears pretty early on, after which we see escalated conflict. The fact that they don't know whether Maedhros is dead or alive makes things extra difficult (on top of the burning of the ships etc.).
Morgoth starts searching for the Second Children. (I want this to happen before Fingon rescues Maedhros, because I 'd like Thorondor's involvement to cause confusion among the Angband underlings when they are without leadership)
Fingon rescues Maedhros

Episode 2
Círdan meets the Noldor. I guess this is when Galadriel and Celeborn first meet? So this could be the time when Galadriel sees the ships and Celeborn understands that she's carrying a wound, and their love story begins.

Fingolfin acclaimed as High King of the Noldor. (We need something with the Fëanoreans here, of course, before this, about Maedhros. Plus Maedhros and Fingolfin.)


Episode 3
Thingol learns of the Noldor.
Angrod and Galadriel travel with Celeborn to Doriath (develop their love story).
(Thingol: "How is my brother Olwë?")
Official granting of lands outside Doriath
Fëanoreans move East

Episode 4
Feast of Reuniting
Morgoth (or Sauron?) finds Men in the East (I wonder. Should we really show this? As I suggested earlier, I think Morgoth should be the one who goes. But I can see Sauron going on following occasions. So, at this point, we can show Morgoth returning with mission of finding the second children accomplished, and so now he sends Sauron to build on what he has started. After all, he has to continue pouring his evil into Arda.)

 

[Alcarohtar]

Did Morgoth know that the second children awoke at the first dawn? Why? How?
If he didn't why does he start searching for them?

 

[Ange1e4e5]

Did Morgoth know that the second children awoke at the first dawn? Why? How?
If he didn't why does he start searching for them?

He knows that Men are coming (he spreads rumors about it to set the Nolder against each other), but nobody knows where. Perhaps Thuringwethil is sent on a scouting mission and informs Sauron or Morgoth?

 

[Haakon]

Yes he knows they're coming but not any details. He could have a hunch, based on his knowledge about the Music, that they've arrived now. I can see him going himself, as I suggested, or sending Sauron. Probably not Thuringwethil, she's not important enough.

I just remembered that we have to add to the first episode that Morgoth sends clouds of smoke to cover Hithlum (to counter the Sun). At that point Fingon sets out, using the smoke as cover.

 

[Ange1e4e5]

Yes he knows they're coming but not any details. He could have a hunch, based on his knowledge about the Music, that they've arrived now. I can see him going himself, as I suggested, or sending Sauron. Probably not Thuringwethil, she's not important enough.

I just remembered that we have to add to the first episode that Morgoth sends clouds of smoke to cover Hithlum (to counter the Sun). At that point Fingon sets out, using the smoke as cover.

Sounds good.

I had thought of Thuringwethil because of all the associates of Morgoth so far, she’s the least conspicuous since she transforms into a bat, Morgoth only uses his Dark Lord form, Gothmog is a Balrog, Sauron doesn’t turn into anything that doesn’t stand out (like a really big wolf), Dragluin is a werewolf, and what did we decide on Telvido’s form?