Session 4.02 - Season 4 Episode Outlines

Haakon

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Ok, my thoughts were more along the lines "The text says Morgoth probably went himself"...

Tevildo is a big cat, I'm not sure about the final specifics.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Ok, my thoughts were more along the lines "The text says Morgoth probably went himself"...

Tevildo is a big cat, I'm not sure about the final specifics.
There have been suggestions towards having Sauron corrupt Men since it will give him something to do since the text is scant on details on what Sauron is doing until the fall of Fingolfin and as a foreshadowing of Sauron’s corruption of the Numenoreans in the Second Age. If we have Sauron commanding the war while Morgoth corrupts Men, Sauron will need a crash course on how to make dragons, and we’ll have to make some more stuff up.

Plus, since Maedhros is rescued, the Noldor win most of the battles, Angband is besieged and Glaurung gets let out too early all on Sauron’s watch, Sauron looks incompetent.
 
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Haakon

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It shouldn’t be either Morgoth or Sauron.
As I wrote above, my suggestion is that Morgoth goes East first and then sends Sauron, while he himself starts to make dragons. I’m not married to any particular idea but I do think that Morgoth has to go East at some point. Even if Sauron will corrupt the Numenoreans later, the original corruptor is Morgoth - leaving him out of the process would be an error. Personally I think his involvement should be at the start rather than later on, but that’s something we have to discuss.
 

Alcarohtar

Active Member
Morgoth is not Melkor any more though. He's basically a monster, isn't he? How does he make Men believers? He comes kind of a god, right? So do people worship him because they fear him?
 

Haakon

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Yeah but what if Morgoth goes East and finds the Men, and he scares them, really terrifies them. It wasn’t what he wanted, or he realises that this was a bad start. So he goes back to Angband and orders Sauron to go back East and fix things.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
So what would Sauron say in Morgoth’s favor? That he was attacked by the Valar, who left him scarred and deformed? And then have them call Morgoth Melkor, his original name?

And now I’m reminded of Ebony Maw from Avengers: Infinity War, whose main role is to be Thanos’ hype man.
 

MithLuin

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Morgoth is definitely the one making dragons, so he is in Angband for that part of the Season (2nd half). But that does not prevent him from going east during the first part of the Season (prior to the Dagor Aglareb) and then returning later.

I do like the suggestion of Morgoth finding Men himself, but then returning and maybe sending Sauron as a high priest type to build the cult of devotion to him. Because we could have scenes exclusively in Angband talking about that transition that would be a sufficient tease to get the audience interested...without having to show Men yet.


Our goal right now is to come up with overarching story lines - to figure out where we start and where we go so that things are compelling. I'm not as concerned with making a list of every little thing that needs to happen in this season, but rather with developing the arcs.


Telchar and Eöl need a storyline. We know that we want them to work together (for a time) and for her to be turned off by the inherent evil of his swords. We just have to figure out how they know each other. We know that we want her to be crafting all her famous stuff - Narsil right after the Sun rises, and the Dragon-helm right after Glaurung appears (as her final work as an ancient dwarf). I forgot if we gave her a chance to make Angrist already....

The dwarf storyline is going to be focused on the petty-dwarves this Season, exploring the tension/enmity between the two groups. How do our established dwarf characters (Norn, Azaghal, Telchar, Laurin) fit into this story, and what other dwarf characters do we need to really convey this to the audience? We are meant to introduce Zirak as a young silversmith who makes the Nauglamir at the completion of Nargothrond. And of course we will need a named Petty-dwarf (Mîm?) Do we need anyone else? Also...will the elves figure out that dwarves are mortal yet? The dwarves have already figured out that elves are naturally immortal, but they like to keep their secrets, so it's possible they are concealing their old age/sickness/deaths from the elves. How will Norn and Telchar exit the story?
 

Haakon

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Staff member
So what would Sauron say in Morgoth’s favor? That he was attacked by the Valar, who left him scarred and deformed? And then have them call Morgoth Melkor, his original name?

And now I’m reminded of Ebony Maw from Avengers: Infinity War, whose main role is to be Thanos’ hype man.
He’d probably say something else....

He could perhaps claim that the Men saw the judging, warring and destructive aspect of Melkor, and that they would have to worship him a lot for him to show them his loving, glorious aspect, which would in turn make them glorious and powerful too.
 

Haakon

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Staff member
The mortality of the Men is so emphasised so I think that the mortality of the Dwarves perhaps should be a secret to the Elves...but maybe not to the audience. I’m not sure that’s possible though. Perhaps Eöl finds out early on. Norn could die in Eöl’s presence maybe?

It seems we have two tracks or storylines concerning Dwarves: Eöl and the smiths as one, and the Petty-dwarves and the Dwarves’ treatment of them being the other - where other elves (Caranthir, Finrod) take part. We should, I suggest, try to mold these two storylines into one, with a few Dwarves, two or three, as main characters, who are confronted with all Dwarf-related stuff this season.
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
Or morgoth simply could, i don't know...
Disguise. Wrap himself in br7ght clothes and wear a golden mask or something like it?
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Or morgoth simply could, i don't know...
Disguise. Wrap himself in br7ght clothes and wear a golden mask or something like it?
He locks his form into the “Dark Lord” mode and doesn’t change appearance after meeting Ungoliant after Feanor refuses to give him the Silmarils.
 

MithLuin

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I feel like it's his physical body that is locked in; costume changes for Morgoth are permissible. On the other hand...what would be his motivation for changing his appearance? Once he's locked in, he's pretty committed to the Dark Lord aesthetic, I feel.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
I agree totally. I think trying to look nice would be a sign of weakness in Morgoth’s mind at this point. Why try to please? People just have to succumb.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
I feel like it's his physical body that is locked in; costume changes for Morgoth are permissible. On the other hand...what would be his motivation for changing his appearance? Once he's locked in, he's pretty committed to the Dark Lord aesthetic, I feel.
It says in the published Silmarillion that he changes his form to that of the dark Lord of Utumno when he goes to visit Ungoliant and just chooses to stay that way. Now, changing his garb... how should he change his costume to be more pleasing? Maybe he realizes that he can’t change his form and then sends Sauron because Men will not acclimate to something that looks like it’s out of their nightmares? People flock towards what they think looks pleasing to the eyes; just look at Game of Thrones where Sansa is drawn in by Joffrey’s good looks before he orders her father’s decapitation.
 

Haakon

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Staff member
Ok another storyline I would like to discuss covers Thingol and Melian. This season, Thingol’s character arch takes a bad turn. I think he should be really happy about the Noldor arriving, while Melian perhaps is a bit more cautious or nuanced. So when he hears about the Kinslaying, he breaks. After that, it’s not much apart from Luthien that makes him smile with a warm heart.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Ok another storyline I would like to discuss covers Thingol and Melian. This season, Thingol’s character arch takes a bad turn. I think he should be really happy about the Noldor arriving, while Melian perhaps is a bit more cautious or nuanced. So when he hears about the Kinslaying, he breaks. After that, it’s not much apart from Luthien that makes him smile with a warm heart.
Is Melian able to sense what has happened, i.e. telepathy?
 

amysrevenge

Well-Known Member
I guess it's a bit specific to be talking about in an overview thread, but regarding Morgoth.

For the Valar (/Maiar/whatevs) their physical form IS their costume. Wearing a physical costume on top of that would be absurd. It could fool our earthly eyes, sure, but it would seem absurd to one of their ilk.

It's a bit like hanging a sign that says "I'm a ghost" around your neck while wearing a Homer Simpson Halloween costume - someone of greatly diminished reasoning might look at you and say "Aaaah! A ghost!", but you wouldn't really think of yourself as a ghost and probably wouldn't be confident in your double disguise.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Yes, I'm not sure how to handle Thingol. He's...going to double down on his 'who cares what happens outside my borders?' philosophy and withdraw from Beleriand. But...at the beginning of this, he thinks of himself as the ruler of Beleriand, granting the newly arrived Noldor permission to be his neighbors. So, that is a significant change, and we have to see the betrayal that gets him to make that sharp shift.

The Noldor are full of secrets. Some will come out sooner than others. Over the course of the first half of this season, Thingol is going to learn that:
  1. His good friend Finwë is dead, murdered by Morgoth.
  2. Finwë's son Fëanor made these silmaril jewels that Morgoth stole.
  3. His brother Olwë is dead, slain by Fëanor.
  4. The Noldor killed many of the Teleri in Alqualondë and stole their ships.
  5. It was the Fëanoreans, not Morgoth or orcs, that burned the Teleri ships.
WHEN and HOW he learns these things will tell different stories.

Does he hear rumors? Do Círdan or Celeborn find out and tell him? Does Melian learn the truth and share it with him? Do the Noldor (particularly the very angry sons of Finarfin) tell the Sindar to intentionally drive a wedge between them and the Fëanoreans?

And for each new revelation (which the audience already knows), does Thingol react with grief...anger...or a complete revamping of his nation's foreign policy? What is the last straw? At what point does he say, I never want to hear your language spoken again? I never want to see anyone dressed in your cultural garb (jewels) again?

I mean, we know it's the kinslaying. But keep in mind that we've added the bonus 'Fëanor personally throws the spear that kills Olwë' element, and we've had Earwen (the mother of Angrod, by the by) die in the kinslaying as well. Given those details, what exactly comes out when and how is more than just 'Thingol learns of the Kinslaying'.

We don't want to prolong this too long (since the audience already knows), but that should overshadow the initial goodwill between the Sindar and the Noldor. Thingol should be very welcoming, happy to send his representatives to the Feast of Reuniting, etc. It is only after that that the uglier truths are learned. So....

I think he definitely learns of Finwë's death first, and his genuine grief gives him a *brief* moment of being united with and sympathetic to the Noldor (even the Fëanoreans).

Learning of the silmarils is merely an intriguing detail (at first). Melian is much more concerned by this one.

I think the shipburning is the last, in the aftermath of the Ban, when Círdan and Thingol discuss the fall of the Noldor, and how they are not the saviors the Sindar thought they were at first.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
We have to decide how much of the text we think is usable. It has some problems, imho.

Stages/events:
1. Thingol learns of the arrival of the Noldor. He welcomes them but “not with a full heart” because a lot of princes arrive wanting lands. As he realises Morgoth will attack again he wants to make alliances and accepts that Finarfin’s kin pass through the Girdle of Melian. Angrod visits as messenger and tells very little: about the deeds of the Noldor in the North and about their numbers. (Perhaps he also says the Noldor are the messengers of the Valar? This lie is referred to later by Melian but I’m not sure who said it.)
Thingol accepts Noldor settlements in Hithlum, Dorthonion and the lands East of Doriath, but sends a message that the Noldor have to behave and that Sindar live all over Beleriand, and he is the Lord of Beleriand.
2. At the council of the Noldor, Thingol’s welcome is considered ‘cold’ and Caranthir cries at Angrod questioning his role as messenger. The Noldor settle.
3. Finrod and Galadriel at Doriath. Galadriel is in love with Celeborn and gets to know Melian.
OMG nothing has actually really been said at this point!!
4. Galadriel’s silence about anything after the death of the Trees makes Melian confront her: “there is a woe upon you and your kin”. You aren’t the messengers of the Valar. Were you driven in exile? Galadriel says they went against the will of the Valar to seek vengeance and to regain what Morgoth stole. She tells about the Silmarils and the slaying of Finwë.
Melian tells Thingol and he says ok that’s good. Melian: “Beware of the sons of Fëanor!” (Come with evil) Thingol: Ok I don’t care.
5. Tales and secrets spread among the Sindar about the deeds of the Noldor. This is the most unclear part I think.
6. Cirdan acts on the rumours and sends a messenger (Galdor?) to Doriath.
7. Messenger comes to Doriath and Thingol gets upset with Finrod and Angrod, who are visiting. Angrod is also upset and tells them about the Kinslaying, the Doom of Mandos, the burning of the ships and the Helcaraxë.

So basically point 7. is the huge turning point (Edit: and before that, point 4. of course). Whether Thingol gets filled with grief or sorrow or both is not important at this stage of our process, we just have to decide which events happen in what episode.
 
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