Session 4.02 - Season 4 Episode Outlines

Thinking about it more - do we deliberately go out of our way to insert her into ongoing stories, the way Galadriel was retroactively wedged into pre-existing stories by The Man himself (possibly in anticipation of a never completed re-write)? Like, do we give her a prominent on-screen role during any battles, or maybe are the master-apprentice sessions between Melian and Galadriel also attended by Luthien, making a strange three-way dynamic? Does Thingol send her out on errands the way he sends out Celeborn, Beleg, and Mablung? I'm just wildly throwing darts here...
 
Thinking about it more - do we deliberately go out of our way to insert her into ongoing stories, the way Galadriel was retroactively wedged into pre-existing stories by The Man himself (possibly in anticipation of a never completed re-write)? Like, do we give her a prominent on-screen role during any battles, or maybe are the master-apprentice sessions between Melian and Galadriel also attended by Luthien, making a strange three-way dynamic? Does Thingol send her out on errands the way he sends out Celeborn, Beleg, and Mablung? I'm just wildly throwing darts here...
Luthien seems to be more of the master-apprentice sessions type, not as much for being in the heat of battle.
 
No, I hear you...what do we do with her?

It's important that Lúthien be *awesome* at pretty much all times...she's a character you're supposed to love (or dismiss as a Mary Sue). So losing sight of her or having her do 'nothing much' for two seasons until Beren shows up would be a disaster.

Certainly, I think we gave her a decent role and storyline in Season 3 - she was introduced in the 'moment of peace' in Beleriand, she's a dancer, she's a 'make love not war' type, and she believes very strongly in the power of the arts rather than military power as a force of good in the world. (And considering the power of song in Tolkien's world...she's not wrong.) She and Daeron fought back the spiders in Menegroth before Melian put the Girdle up. She's also Melian's daughter, not just her pupil, so their relationship should be interesting to see play out.

We have shown her outside Doriath (in the meeting between Thingol and the dwarves), but that was before the Girdle. Once the Girdle of Melian goes up, I think Lúthien stays within Doriath's borders. Now, if we want to let her out for the Feast of Reuniting, and then have Thingol deny her the opportunity to leave ever again, we could handle the story that way. I think that Lúthien is someone who never loses her sense of childlike wonder, so she may seem very 'young' to the audience...but as time goes on, we should see that she is wise and strong as well.

I do not think she will take part in any battles. That's...not really her thing. She dances in the woods and sings songs. She can be an encouragement to others, though. We've seen her relationship with Círdan as a 'kindly uncle', and she could be eager to meet visitors to Doriath, such as the Noldor. She and Galadriel could even have a 'sisterly' vibe. [Technically, their relationship is first cousins once removed.] Does she like the Noldor she meets? Does Galadriel try to set her up with Finrod? Does Daeron try to court her? Can we please have a storyline that isn't just about her love interests?

Basically, she should play a role in whatever 'Doriath' storylines we have going on. This season, that's Thingol's discovery of the kinslaying (and subsequent ban of Quenya), and Galadriel's tutelage under Melian and love story with Celeborn. Thingol also plays a secondary role in the building of Nargothrond. Eöl will buy Nan Elmoth from Thingol this season. How would Lúthien fit into any of those stories?
 
Wouldn’t trying to set Luthien up with Finrod not work, and not just due to forgone conclusion ? Finrod already has someone who he is attached to, and Elves typically do not change who they are attracted to; that would imply Galadriel has little understanding of how Elven attachments work. Or did Galadriel not like Amarie from the start?

I could see Daeron trying to court Luthien.
 
I am pretty sure Daeron did try, he may even have believed to have been her partner by fate, not realizing that because of her special heritage she falls out of elven rule... Luthien would maybe not have realized it herself, but maybe she felt it,
 
Basically, she should play a role in whatever 'Doriath' storylines we have going on. This season, that's Thingol's discovery of the kinslaying (and subsequent ban of Quenya), and Galadriel's tutelage under Melian and love story with Celeborn. Thingol also plays a secondary role in the building of Nargothrond. Eöl will buy Nan Elmoth from Thingol this season. How would Lúthien fit into any of those stories?

Well, what about Luthien's reaction to the Kinslaying? Would she see deeper into the wider tragedy, and not the more shallow (but still real) "They killed my brother!" angle that Thingol will focus on? Would she try to temper her father's rage on this matter, even through her sorrow?

What sort of interaction, if any, would there be between Eöl and Luthien? Does Luthien really like Nan Elmoth maybe?
 
Well, what about Luthien's reaction to the Kinslaying? Would she see deeper into the wider tragedy, and not the more shallow (but still real) "They killed my brother!" angle that Thingol will focus on? Would she try to temper her father's rage on this matter, even through her sorrow?

What sort of interaction, if any, would there be between Eöl and Luthien? Does Luthien really like Nan Elmoth maybe?

Perhaps she’s present when Eol requests Nan Elmoth and senses the darkness within him?
 
Haha I think everyone can sense that. :p I was almost thinking that she likes him (she seems like she would find the positive in bad people), or has a premonition that he has a role to play and convinces her father to complete the bargain.
 
Haha I think everyone can sense that. :p I was almost thinking that she likes him (she seems like she would find the positive in bad people), or has a premonition that he has a role to play and convinces her father to complete the bargain.
Speaking of which, maybe to keep the sword for the same reason?
 
So, what I currently have for the overview for the Season:


Season 4 Overview


Episode 1: First Contact for Círdan and the rescue of Maedhros

The Host of Fingolfin is encamped on the north end of Lake Mithrim, while the Host of Fëanor is encamped on the south. They are uneasy with one another, as the Fëanoreans never thought to see the elves they'd betrayed again. Fingolfin has learned of his (half-)brother Fëanor's death, and Fingon has learned that his (half-)cousin Maedhros is missing. The Fëanoreans are stuck and Maglor is not a decisive leader.


Círdan makes first contact with the Noldor. After an initial language barrier, they are able to communicate, and Círdan is both surprised and happy to learn that these elves have come from Valinor and are the descendants of the elves they said goodbye to ages ago. They ask after Finwë and Olwë, and want to know how and why the Noldor have come back. The Noldor dissemble. No one mentions the Kinslaying. They claim they have come back to fight Morgoth, and everyone agrees that is a good thing.


Morgoth sends a cloud of darkness to cover the land, so his evil creatures can move about freely in the sunlight. Seeing this, Fingon gets an idea and departs with a harp and a bow.


Círdan learns that some of the Noldor are descendants of Olwë, and invites them to come to Doriath as kin of the king (Elwë). Finrod cautions Angrod to behave diplomatically and speak as little of the Fëanoreans as possible. Does Galadriel go or stay? Who leads the trip? (Celeborn? Círdan? Or...?)


Meanwhile, Fingon reaches Thangorodrim and discovers where Maedhros is hanging out of reach. With the help of Thorondor, he manages to rescue his friend. A weakened and one-handed Maedhros is brought back to the camp.


Fingolfin reforges Ringil?

Telchar makes Narsil? Eöl reintroduced?



Episode 2: Diplomacy

Círdan's group reaches Doriath and is admitted to Menegroth. Thingol meets Angrod (and...?) and welcomes him as kin and asks about Valinor. Angrod gives an extremely whitewashed version of the story thus far. He tells of Morgoth's wrongs, but sorta skips over the rebellion of the Noldor. He does not go so far as to call the Noldor emissaries of the Valar.


Thingol is less that satisfied with this tale, and concerned when he learns of a new standing army in Beleriand (even if it is between him and Morgoth). Thingol declares Doriath off-limit (except by invitation) and cautions the Noldor not to impinge on Sindar lands. Angrod considers his diplomatic mission a success - he's established kinship and friendship with Thingol, and gained permission for the Noldor to settle Beleriand.


Maedhros recuperates; learns how to handle a sword and do other mundane tasks one-handed.


Celeborn and Galadriel have a getting-to-know-you conversation. She is young and impetuous, and he is older and more likely to keep his thoughts to himself, but there is the first spark of mutual respect and interest between them.


Angrod returns to the camp in the north. Finrod is pleased with how it went, but when Angrod presents Thingol's words to the gathered Noldor leaders, Caranthir has an immediate and violent reaction. He questions Angrod's authority to speak for all the Noldor, and considers Thingol's welcome too cold. Maedhros, who is still recovering but hale enough to attend the meeting, physically removes Caranthir and speaks more diplomatically, dismissing both Caranthir's concern and Thingol's authority outside his own borders.


The Noldor are left with a question of who will lead them now - are they destined to fracture apart?

The bad guys are very much alarmed by Thorondor's involvement in Maedhros' rescue. Morgoth suspects that the Second Children have awoken?



Episode 3 - Crowning the High King

More Sindar-Noldor interactions

Maedhros gets his house in order. He rebukes Caranthir for the unwise outburst, and explains how that cost them. They need the Host of Fingolfin if they are going to fight the armies of Angband, and he's not going to let his brothers cost them that fragile alliance. Curufin has some things to say about Fingon and Angrod. Maedhros says that now that he's back, he's in charge, and they'll obey him. Amras and Maedhros have a private conversation.

The Noldor have a convocation(?) to discuss leadership. It is expected that the Host of Fingolfin will select Fingolfin and the Host of Fëanor will select Maedhros and there will be a permanent split into two separate people. Maedhros surprises them all (well, not Maglor or Fingon) by declaring Fingolfin the heir of Finwë and thus ceding his own claim as his father's heir. [Ie, he'll never use the name Nelyafinwë again....] Fingolfin is acclaimed as High King by all the Noldor

Fingolfin gives the Noldor some kingly advice about establishing themselves in Beleriand and staying on good terms with the Sindar.

Maedhros decides that the Fëanoreans will need to go to the East. It's the area that's one of the hardest to defend from Morgoth, and it's far away from everyone else. He says goodbye to Fingon before they go, and they have some meaningful conversation about the hand that was cut off and the rescue that was supposed to be a mercy killing.


Episode 4 Of Beleriand and its realms. Lots of building.

Galadriel goes to Doriath to become Melian's pupil. Círdan returns to the havens.

Eöl is outraged at his new Noldor neighbors.

Death of Norn?

Establish courts and see the first Noldor/Sindar interactions. Rumors about the arrival of the Noldor spread through the Sindar.

Morgoth (or Sauron) finds Men in the East


Episode 5 - Feast of Reuniting in Nevrast

Turgon's court hosts Fingolfin's party. Attendees include: Maedhros, Maglor, Beleg, Mablung, all of the princes of the Noldor from Fingolfin’s camp, many Sindar, Círdan, Celeborn. NOT attending are Thingol, Eöl, the other sons of Fëanor, any dwarves (Telchar? Norn?)

Daeron and Maglor duet? (or more dueling banjos?)

A 'false peace' exists, as the Sindar don't know the truth about the Noldor, and the lack of activity from Angband makes some people consider the sun to have conquered Morgoth's orcs. During the Feast, Finrod makes his statement about never marrying, and an oath he will one day swear. Also, Celeborn and Galadriel have a heart-to-heart while looking out over the ships in the harbor. Galadriel reveals some of the darkness that is over the Noldor, but focuses on the personal tragedy of having lost her mother. Celeborn is a good listener (and remembers the loss of his own family to the Hunter?)

Orodreth meets a lovely Sinda lady.


Episode 6 - The truth of the kinslaying comes out

Galadriel tells Melian the truth of the Darkening of Valinor - that Morgoth killed the Trees and killed Finwë and stole Fëanor’s silmarils.

Melian shares the pertinent parts of this with Thingol, who is bothered, but does not think it too serious to continue on in friendship with the Noldor (who after all have a common enemy).

Eöl requests permission to call Nan Elmoth his own. Thingol says he is free to choose any land outside of Doriath, but Nan Elmoth belongs to him.

Orodreth marries a lovely Sinda woman whom he met at the Feast at the Pools of Ivrin.

When Thingol confronts Angrod about his less-than-full tale of the flight of the Noldor, Angrod confesses the Kinslaying. After all, he has no reason to protect the Fëanoreans from the truth of their own misdeeds.

EDIT: Celeborn and Galadriel plight their troth (declare their love to each other, whatever).

Episode 7 - Thingol's ban


Eöl makes swords with the intent of purchasing what Thingol will not give freely. Telchar sees these swords and is disturbed by the darkness of them.

Thingol bans the speaking of Quenya and wearing of jewels, saying that those who do so are kinslayers unrepentant. Círdan and Thingol mourn the death of Olwë.

Fingolfin as High King accepts the terms of the ban. He finds it more important to keep peace with their new neighbors than to protect their own culture. He’s fine with speaking Sindarin and who needs to wear jewels, anyway?


Episode 8 - The Dagor Aglareb!


Gothmog unleashes a huge army of orcs on the north.

All the good guys must unite to fight back the assault.

Forgiveness so they can work together to protect their lands is wise.


Episode 9 - Ulmo's intervention

Fingolfin sets up the Siege of Angband to last forever.

Finrod and Turgon receive dream messages from Ulmo warning that the peace will not last.

Morgoth and/or Sauron returns from the East and debriefs


Episode 10 - The Petty-Dwarves

Finrod visits Galadriel in Menegroth and seeks Thingol’s help.

Thingol tells him about the caves of Narog and sets up a meeting with the dwarves to aid him. Petty-dwarves driven out of Nargothrond (by dwarves)

Ulmo shows Turgon the vale of Tumladen.

Celegorm, Curufin, and Caranthir ‘accidentally’ hunt Petty-dwarves in the East.

Amras is anti-social on Amon Ereb.

Morgoth makes dragons.


Episode 11 - Hewer of Caves


Finrod works on building Nargothrond. Dwarves name him ‘Felagund’

Caranthir meets the dwarves of the Blue Mountains; luckily, they’re okay with killing the faithless petty-dwarves.

Turgon builds Gondolin in secret. (Aredhel stays behind with Idril in Nevrast?)

Círdan rebuilds the Havens with the help of the Noldor. Finrod builds Barad Nimras to guard the sea. Círdan expresses his desire to continue to work with them and help them in their times of need despite the Kinslaying. He does not want to do Morgoth’s work for him.


Episode 12 - The Hidden City


Turgon moves his people from Vinyamar/Nevrast to Tumladen in secret.

Galadriel marries Celeborn.

Nargothrond complete. Young Zirak presents the Nauglamir to Finrod.

Villains make a cryptic reference to Men.


Episode 13 - A Dragon Unleashed

Young Glaurung escapes Angband and devastates the north (particularly Ard Galen). Angrod and Aegnor fall back to Dorthonion. Fingon fights Glaurung back to Angband.

Turgon stays safely in Gondolin and does not fight.

Thingol stays safely in Doriath and does not fight.

Telchar makes her last work - the Dragon-helm - and gifts it to Azaghâl.





I realize I have not mentioned Lúthien at all, and Eöl is only clumsily worked into the story.
 
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So, what I currently have for the overview for the Season:


Season 4 Overview


Episode 1: First Contact for Círdan and the rescue of Maedhros

The Host of Fingolfin is encamped on the north end of Lake Mithrim, while the Host of Fëanor is encamped on the south. They are uneasy with one another, as the Fëanoreans never thought to see the elves they'd betrayed again. Fingolfin has learned of his (half-)brother Fëanor's death, and Fingon has learned that his (half-)cousin Maedhros is missing. The Fëanoreans are stuck and Maglor is not a decisive leader.


Círdan makes first contact with the Noldor. After an initial language barrier, they are able to communicate, and Círdan is both surprised and happy to learn that these elves have come from Valinor and are the descendants of the elves they said goodbye to ages ago. They ask after Finwë and Olwë, and want to know how and why the Noldor have come back. The Noldor dissemble. No one mentions the Kinslaying. They claim they have come back to fight Morgoth, and everyone agrees that is a good thing.


Morgoth sends a cloud of darkness to cover the land, so his evil creatures can move about freely in the sunlight. Seeing this, Fingon gets an idea and departs with a harp and a bow.


Círdan learns that some of the Noldor are descendants of Olwë, and invites them to come to Doriath as kin of the king (Elwë). Finrod cautions Angrod to behave diplomatically and speak as little of the Fëanoreans as possible. Does Galadriel go or stay? Who leads the trip? (Celeborn? Círdan? Or...?)


Meanwhile, Fingon reaches Thangorodrim and discovers where Maedhros is hanging out of reach. With the help of Thorondor, he manages to rescue his friend. A weakened and one-handed Maedhros is brought back to the camp.


Fingolfin reforges Ringil?

Telchar makes Narsil? Eöl reintroduced?



Episode 2: Diplomacy

Círdan's group reaches Doriath and is admitted to Menegroth. Thingol meets Angrod (and...?) and welcomes him as kin and asks about Valinor. Angrod gives an extremely whitewashed version of the story thus far. He tells of Morgoth's wrongs, but sorta skips over the rebellion of the Noldor. He does not go so far as to call the Noldor emissaries of the Valar.


Thingol is less that satisfied with this tale, and concerned when he learns of a new standing army in Beleriand (even if it is between him and Morgoth). Thingol declares Doriath off-limit (except by invitation) and cautions the Noldor not to impinge on Sindar lands. Angrod considers his diplomatic mission a success - he's established kinship and friendship with Thingol, and gained permission for the Noldor to settle Beleriand.


Maedhros recuperates; learns how to handle a sword and do other mundane tasks one-handed.


Celeborn and Galadriel have a getting-to-know-you conversation. She is young and impetuous, and he is older and more likely to keep his thoughts to himself, but there is the first spark of mutual respect and interest between them.


Angrod returns to the camp in the north. Finrod is pleased with how it went, but when Angrod presents Thingol's words to the gathered Noldor leaders, Caranthir has an immediate and violent reaction. He questions Angrod's authority to speak for all the Noldor, and considers Thingol's welcome too cold. Maedhros, who is still recovering but hale enough to attend the meeting, physically removes Caranthir and speaks more diplomatically, dismissing both Caranthir's concern and Thingol's authority outside his own borders.


The Noldor are left with a question of who will lead them now - are they destined to fracture apart?

The bad guys are very much alarmed by Thorondor's involvement in Maedhros' rescue. Morgoth suspects that the Second Children have awoken?



Episode 3 - Crowning the High King

More Sindar-Noldor interactions

Maedhros gets his house in order. He rebukes Caranthir for the unwise outburst, and explains how that cost them. They need the Host of Fingolfin if they are going to fight the armies of Angband, and he's not going to let his brothers cost them that fragile alliance. Curufin has some things to say about Fingon and Angrod. Maedhros says that now that he's back, he's in charge, and they'll obey him. Amras and Maedhros have a private conversation.

The Noldor have a convocation(?) to discuss leadership. It is expected that the Host of Fingolfin will select Fingolfin and the Host of Fëanor will select Maedhros and there will be a permanent split into two separate people. Maedhros surprises them all (well, not Maglor or Fingon) by declaring Fingolfin the heir of Finwë and thus ceding his own claim as his father's heir. [Ie, he'll never use the name Nelyafinwë again....] Fingolfin is acclaimed as High King by all the Noldor

Fingolfin gives the Noldor some kingly advice about establishing themselves in Beleriand and staying on good terms with the Sindar.

Maedhros decides that the Fëanoreans will need to go to the East. It's the area that's one of the hardest to defend from Morgoth, and it's far away from everyone else. He says goodbye to Fingon before they go, and they have some meaningful conversation about the hand that was cut off and the rescue that was supposed to be a mercy killing.


Episode 4 Of Beleriand and its realms. Lots of building.

Galadriel goes to Doriath to become Melian's pupil. Círdan returns to the havens.

Eöl is outraged at his new Noldor neighbors.

Death of Norn?

Establish courts and see the first Noldor/Sindar interactions. Rumors about the arrival of the Noldor spread through the Sindar.

Morgoth (or Sauron) finds Men in the East


Episode 5 - Feast of Reuniting in Nevrast

Turgon's court hosts Fingolfin's party. Attendees include: Maedhros, Maglor, Beleg, Mablung, all of the princes of the Noldor from Fingolfin’s camp, many Sindar, Círdan, Celeborn. NOT attending are Thingol, Eöl, the other sons of Fëanor, any dwarves (Telchar? Norn?)

Daeron and Maglor duet? (or more dueling banjos?)

A 'false peace' exists, as the Sindar don't know the truth about the Noldor, and the lack of activity from Angband makes some people consider the sun to have conquered Morgoth's orcs. During the Feast, Finrod makes his statement about never marrying, and an oath he will one day swear. Also, Celeborn and Galadriel have a heart-to-heart while looking out over the ships in the harbor. Galadriel reveals some of the darkness that is over the Noldor, but focuses on the personal tragedy of having lost her mother. Celeborn is a good listener (and remembers the loss of his own family to the Hunter?)

Orodreth meets a lovely Sinda lady.


Episode 6 - The truth of the kinslaying comes out

Galadriel tells Melian the truth of the Darkening of Valinor - that Morgoth killed the Trees and killed Finwë and stole Fëanor’s silmarils.

Melian shares the pertinent parts of this with Thingol, who is bothered, but does not think it too serious to continue on in friendship with the Noldor (who after all have a common enemy).

Eöl requests permission to call Nan Elmoth his own. Thingol says he is free to choose any land outside of Doriath, but Nan Elmoth belongs to him.

Orodreth marries a lovely Sinda woman whom he met at the Feast at the Pools of Ivrin.

When Thingol confronts Angrod about his less-than-full tale of the flight of the Noldor, Angrod confesses the Kinslaying. After all, he has no reason to protect the Fëanoreans from the truth of their own misdeeds.


Episode 7 - Thingol's ban


Eöl makes swords with the intent of purchasing what Thingol will not give freely. Telchar sees these swords and is disturbed by the darkness of them.

Thingol bans the speaking of Quenya and wearing of jewels, saying that those who do so are kinslayers unrepentant. Círdan and Thingol mourn the death of Olwë.

Fingolfin as High King accepts the terms of the ban. He finds it more important to keep peace with their new neighbors than to protect their own culture. He’s fine with speaking Sindarin and who needs to wear jewels, anyway?


Episode 8 - The Dagor Aglareb!


Gothmog unleashes a huge army of orcs on the north.

All the good guys must unite to fight back the assault.

Forgiveness so they can work together to protect their lands is wise.


Episode 9 - Ulmo's intervention

Fingolfin sets up the Siege of Angband to last forever.

Finrod and Turgon receive dream messages from Ulmo warning that the peace will not last.

Morgoth and/or Sauron returns from the East and debriefs


Episode 10 - The Petty-Dwarves

Finrod visits Galadriel in Menegroth and seeks Thingol’s help.

Thingol tells him about the caves of Narog and sets up a meeting with the dwarves to aid him. Petty-dwarves driven out of Nargothrond (by dwarves)

Ulmo shows Turgon the vale of Tumladen.

Celegorm, Curufin, and Caranthir ‘accidentally’ hunt Petty-dwarves in the East.

Amras is anti-social on Amon Ereb.

Morgoth makes dragons.


Episode 11 - Hewer of Caves


Finrod works on building Nargothrond. Dwarves name him ‘Felagund’

Caranthir meets the dwarves of the Blue Mountains; luckily, they’re okay with killing the faithless petty-dwarves.

Turgon builds Gondolin in secret. (Aredhel stays behind with Idril in Nevrast?)

Círdan rebuilds the Havens with the help of the Noldor. Finrod builds Barad Nimras to guard the sea. Círdan expresses his desire to continue to work with them and help them in their times of need despite the Kinslaying. He does not want to do Morgoth’s work for him.


Episode 12 - The Hidden City


Turgon moves his people from Vinyamar/Nevrast to Tumladen in secret.

Galadriel marries Celeborn.

Nargothrond complete. Young Zirak presents the Nauglamir to Finrod.

Villains make a cryptic reference to Men.


Episode 13 - A Dragon Unleashed

Young Glaurung escapes Angband and devastates the north (particularly Ard Galen). Angrod and Aegnor fall back to Dorthonion. Fingon fights Glaurung back to Angband.

Turgon stays safely in Gondolin and does not fight.

Thingol stays safely in Doriath and does not fight.

Telchar makes her last work - the Dragon-helm - and gifts it to Azaghâl.





I realize I have not mentioned Lúthien at all, and Eöl is only clumsily worked into the story.
How do you plan on weaving Luthien in?
 
I am still confused why the older dwarf is now called Telchar and the younger Zirak, but nevermind, i never understood that decision.

Also it is not explained how Eol suddenly comes to appear in Beleriand... could it be tied in with Morgoth/Sauron's work in the east? Can we get a bit more details aboutbwhat happens innhildorien, or wil we omit this?

I like everything else so far...
 
By the way... wasn't there a version of the story in which celebrimbor was in love with galadriel, but she turned him down? Well i guess our veryion of celebrimbor would still be too young at this point, wouldn't he?
 
So you are requesting a Celebrimbor-Galadriel-Celeborn love triangle, where Celebrimbor is just-come-of-age and Celeborn is an old man, and Galadriel gets to choose between them?

That sounds like my teenage sister being a life guard, and constantly being hit on by 12 year old boys and also one creepy 30-something year old man. :p ...and then meeting her husband when they were both 18 and she was the lifeguard at his community pool!

Haakon, I like your idea well enough, but I haven't really figured out what happens in which episode with it, so I did not write it in yet. They meet in Episode 2...I got that much. They have that conversation at the Feast with the ships in Episode 5...got that. When do they declare their love for one another? Sometime before the wedding, obviously, but I didn't know where to put that. I assumed it would happen in relation to the reveal about the kinslaying and Thingol's ban - an acknowledgement that their people are at odds, but they are still drawn to one another. Maybe?

Eöl needs a story arc for the season, with backstory of why he is back on screen now and what he's been doing since we last saw him. I feel like I gave him an arc - he's trying to buy Nan Elmoth - and I gave him characters to interact with (Telchar, Thingol), but I certainly didn't give him any reason to be there in the first place or any explanation of why he might know Telchar or even Thingol in the first place.

I do like Faelivrin's idea of using Episode 4 for some Eöl-centric back story. Just...don't know what that back story would *be* yet. I assume he knows the dwarves, and has been interacting with them, but what brings on the whole I-want-Nan-Elmoth situation? Was he living there already? Was he living somewhere else and then got chased away by the horrid new sunlight?
 
We have a few days to figure out the exact sequence of the Galadriel-Celeborn storyline. It shouldn’t be too hard.

I have such a hard time to find reasons to focus on Eöl at the beginning of the season. I think we should put all of the spotlight on the Noldor-Sindar relationship. Everything else is soo secondary. I mean, I guess Eöl could turn up and ask the irritatingly mistimed question about him taking over Nan Elmoth, and I for one will understand why Thingol rejects his request completely. But my feeling is that we should push him to the second part of the season. The main reason for having him introduced early seems to be to let him be annoyed at the Noldor coming and taking land. I’m slightly positive to the idea to make something of his and Luthien’s feelings for Nan Elmoth, though.
 
I guess I can see two ways that I'd enjoy the Galadriel Celeborn story to go.

The obvious way would be something organic, where they are thrust together by circumstance and seem to get along, and get along better and better over time, until a romance blossoms out of the friendship. Maybe some cutesy awkward misunderstandings (barf), and a sassy best girl-friend and a hapless dork best dude-friend.

The other way that has entered my brain is that they instantly and immediately mutually become partners the second they meet. Like, they don't even talk about it, they just are finishing each other's sentences and working in concert toward their (now) common goals. It's not unusual or weird, it's the new normal. The cost is that you don't see a relationship develop. The benefit is that it doesn't take a lot of time. And it gives other people something to talk about. Also, this sort of thing is known to happen from time to time (almost every relationship of note starts in this way, as I think about it more). I'd like to see, rather than the extended gobsmacking of Thingol, an immediate practical acceptance of what has happened by both of them.
 
So you are requesting a Celebrimbor-Galadriel-Celeborn love triangle, where Celebrimbor is just-come-of-age and Celeborn is an old man, and Galadriel gets to choose between them?

That sounds like my teenage sister being a life guard, and constantly being hit on by 12 year old boys and also one creepy 30-something year old man. :p ...and then meeting her husband when they were both 18 and she was the lifeguard at his community pool!

Haakon, I like your idea well enough, but I haven't really figured out what happens in which episode with it, so I did not write it in yet. They meet in Episode 2...I got that much. They have that conversation at the Feast with the ships in Episode 5...got that. When do they declare their love for one another? Sometime before the wedding, obviously, but I didn't know where to put that. I assumed it would happen in relation to the reveal about the kinslaying and Thingol's ban - an acknowledgement that their people are at odds, but they are still drawn to one another. Maybe?

Eöl needs a story arc for the season, with backstory of why he is back on screen now and what he's been doing since we last saw him. I feel like I gave him an arc - he's trying to buy Nan Elmoth - and I gave him characters to interact with (Telchar, Thingol), but I certainly didn't give him any reason to be there in the first place or any explanation of why he might know Telchar or even Thingol in the first place.

I do like Faelivrin's idea of using Episode 4 for some Eöl-centric back story. Just...don't know what that back story would *be* yet. I assume he knows the dwarves, and has been interacting with them, but what brings on the whole I-want-Nan-Elmoth situation? Was he living there already? Was he living somewhere else and then got chased away by the horrid new sunlight?
I think that Galadriel and Celeborn can declare their love at Orodreth’s wedding.
I still think that the Angrod telling Thingol everything scene should come in the episode after, btw.
 
Yeah, I'm not too happy with episodes 6 and 7 right now. Part of me is tempted to push the Feast back to episode 4, leaving three episodes between that and the battle. But I'm not really sure what we're doing there.


As for Eöl...obviously, his reintroduction was originally planned during Season 3. He was cut from that season for not really fitting/being relevant. We'll need him to be living in Nan Elmoth in Season 5. So...we don't actually *need* him this season, but we should establish that he lives there. How he gets there or what role he plays in any of the other stories is up for grabs, I guess.

My motivation for putting him early in the season is that he is a character who is going to react strongly to sunlight, and the reaction to the new sun should happen right away in this season. Some elves should definitely still prefer starlight on a moonless night, the way it always was. He can certainly voice that, and maybe *that's* what he and Lúthien have in common. She is obviously the good/pure/wholesome version, but, well... his viewpoint is another take on that.

If we wait and do him later, we might want to play it off as a case of 'he's always been here' and just leave it at that. In which case....there's no story, and no need to even show the audience the thing about buying the land with the sword. That...seems like a weak choice.

When Eöl was meant to be in Season 3, we came up with a whole storyline where he was one of Gamil Brog's apprentices alongside Telchar. Obviously, we ditched that. So, we are in need of some other premise to bring him in, and show that he knows dwarves. I hesitate to make him friends with Azaghal. Perhaps he was more involved with the dwarves of Nogrod? But no, weaponsmithing goes with Broadbeams. *throws hands up* I just don't know!
 
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