Rhiannon
Well-Known Member
Angrod isn't just going to drop out of focus after his wife's death. And he never was the central figure of this arc. It's a story about Edhellos.
Session 4-27, 4-28: Post-production Script Review, Parts 3 and 4
- Thread starter MithLuin
- Start date
Then it’s all the more fitting that he dies. But he isn’t a marginal character, surely? The Doriath business, the quarrel with Caranthir and all?
Ange1e4e5
Well-Known Member
I’d say that Angrod isn’t marginal... up to a point. Aegnor in the published Silmarillion is also a marginal character, but gains more of a role in his relationship with Andreth. Then both are footnotes when they are the first known casualties in the Dagor Bragollach.
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
You could convey that in a single scene if necessary. I don't think it shall be, though.
As to focus on Angrod, there has been some, but he hasn't exactly been the center of the season. I think that could continue apace.
Ange1e4e5
Well-Known Member
If he survives, he would probably discourage Aegnor's relationship with Andreth, particularly because both of them (Angrod and Aegnor) are on the front lines of any offensive that Morgoth makes, perhaps bringing up the unspoken law about not having families in wartime. @Rhiannon has a list of the reasons why Angrod should stay alive and what he could do up to the Dagor Bragollach. I'll post the link to the page later.
It's here: Session 4-20.
Rhiannon
Well-Known Member
He and Orodreth absolutely will be. Also, Edhellos' death after revealing to Angrod that she has become a kinslayer changes his attitude towards the Feanorians, further contributing to the reconciliation of the houses of the Noldor.
I agree that keeping Angrod alive post-Dagor Aglareb allows us to finish up his arc with some sort of reconciliation (or attempted reconciliation) with the Fëanoreans. His and Caranthir's feud has been carried out by proxy, for the most part. If we come up with an excuse to put them in a room together in Season 5, I think it will be worth keeping him alive at least a little bit longer.
As of right now, the Fëanoreans just arrived to save the day in the Dagor Aglareb. Angrod (and Aegnor) had been expressing doubt that they would do so, or more like the sentiment that you can't count on Fëanoreans for anything. So, yeah, possible change of heart opportunity here? Or he could become more bitter over the death of his wife, blaming them for not getting there sooner. Regardless, that's an aftermath-of-the-battle question that he won't be around to address if we kill him. Leaving him wounded in some way might be good.
I have some doubts that having Gothmog slay a distraught Edhellos would do anything to make balrogs look fearsome. She's not exactly in the best shape during that encounter, and killing someone who can't even determine if you are really standing there is an easy task. Having Angrod and Aegnor rush in to save her and fail to inflict any injury on Gothmog might make up for that, though.
Basically, we are choosing between killing Edhellos + Angrod now, or Aegnor + Angrod in the Dagor Bragollach towards the end of next season. Either way, Angrod is the +1 death that is less emotionally impactful than the other character he's paired with. I suggest that we choose neither option 😛 I would like Angrod to be missing, presumed dead, after the Dagor Bragollach. Aegnor dies, but Angrod is taken captive to Angband...where he meets Díriel, who knew Edhellos in her captivity and is of course Curufin's wife and thus a Fëanorean. That could be an interesting end note to the feud - both Angrod and Díriel would remain prisoners in Angband forever, and while the audience will see them again, the elves never will.
As of right now, the Fëanoreans just arrived to save the day in the Dagor Aglareb. Angrod (and Aegnor) had been expressing doubt that they would do so, or more like the sentiment that you can't count on Fëanoreans for anything. So, yeah, possible change of heart opportunity here? Or he could become more bitter over the death of his wife, blaming them for not getting there sooner. Regardless, that's an aftermath-of-the-battle question that he won't be around to address if we kill him. Leaving him wounded in some way might be good.
I have some doubts that having Gothmog slay a distraught Edhellos would do anything to make balrogs look fearsome. She's not exactly in the best shape during that encounter, and killing someone who can't even determine if you are really standing there is an easy task. Having Angrod and Aegnor rush in to save her and fail to inflict any injury on Gothmog might make up for that, though.
Basically, we are choosing between killing Edhellos + Angrod now, or Aegnor + Angrod in the Dagor Bragollach towards the end of next season. Either way, Angrod is the +1 death that is less emotionally impactful than the other character he's paired with. I suggest that we choose neither option 😛 I would like Angrod to be missing, presumed dead, after the Dagor Bragollach. Aegnor dies, but Angrod is taken captive to Angband...where he meets Díriel, who knew Edhellos in her captivity and is of course Curufin's wife and thus a Fëanorean. That could be an interesting end note to the feud - both Angrod and Díriel would remain prisoners in Angband forever, and while the audience will see them again, the elves never will.
Based on last night's session, I think that Corey Olsen is still of the opinion that the death of Angrod in the Dagor Aglareb is a neater and more interesting end to his arc, and he doesn't see Angrod as having anything left to 'do.'
But, he didn't seem to find it necessary to have Angrod die in the Dagor Aglareb, so was willing to entertain options where Angrod lives.
But, he didn't seem to find it necessary to have Angrod die in the Dagor Aglareb, so was willing to entertain options where Angrod lives.
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Ange1e4e5
Well-Known Member
I'm still not on board with the "Angrod as a prisoner" plotline. Call it a knee-jerk reaction to having more than one Elf stuck in Angband just to get rid of them.
Rhiannon
Well-Known Member
I like the idea, but actually I think that Angrod being a captive won't work since we had fake Angrod captured in Episode 6.
I can accept more prisoners in Angband, and Angrod can be one of them, as long as they’re killed before or during the War of Wrath. I don’t think the number is a problem. I mean, we will never end up with more than a few, and if we’re going to use Diriel in coming seasons, it’s good to give her one or more friends. It’s important to handle that carefully of course, Angband is an iron Hell after all, and putting people there who remain alive for a long time kind of makes it less evil.
Ange1e4e5
Well-Known Member
Sure they won’t beat him to death by mistaking him for Sauron?
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
I mean, that was Hurin's plan...