Ange1e4e5
Well-Known Member
They took him alive because Morgoth wanted him alive. They've no reason to keep Angrod alive.
Session 4-27, 4-28: Post-production Script Review, Parts 3 and 4
- Thread starter MithLuin
- Start date
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
Well, that's not really true, and it's also not the point.
Reason #1 the villains would be keen to get Angrod as a prisoner....
...all the other elven captives would see him, their former lord, enslaved.
That's pretty seriously demoralizing....
(And while the confusion with 'hey, is that just Sauron again?' could happen, the easiest way to clarify that is to have both Sauron and Angrod in a room at the same time. So, Sauron visits the prisoners, and the viewers aren't confused.)
...all the other elven captives would see him, their former lord, enslaved.
That's pretty seriously demoralizing....
(And while the confusion with 'hey, is that just Sauron again?' could happen, the easiest way to clarify that is to have both Sauron and Angrod in a room at the same time. So, Sauron visits the prisoners, and the viewers aren't confused.)
Few people 'allow' themselves to get captured. I'm not suggesting a situation where he just surrenders to Angband's forces and lays down his arms. I'm suggesting a situation where he is defeated in battle, possibly wounded, but not dead, and rather than killing him, they take him prisoner. If he was just facing a balrog, he's likely in no position to resist capture.
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Well, I think that the Hosts have no intention of dramatizing the philosophical debate between Finrod and Andreth about fate, death, immortality, the Fall of Men, the future incarnation of Christ, etc.
They definitely want to include the part where young Andreth and Aegnor meet and fall in love and then...nothing.
And, certainly, we can have Finrod visit her when she is an elderly woman and more-or-less apologize for his brother and explain what happened to the bitter Andreth.
But will we actually be including the Athrabeth in this? Basically, no. If we want to work the other parts into the story, we have to...work them in. In little bits and pieces scattered throughout scenes where they make sense. And parts of that debate will be explicitly excluded from this project, I think.
The amdir/estel conversation started in Season 1 and will continue.
Session 4-28 was 3 hours long. The video is available on Twitch here:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/508534659
The first hour and half of the video is dedicated to intro and Episode 8. Starting at the 1:30, we switch to Episode 9.
In Episode 8, there were concerns with how the Spell of Bottomless Dread is depicted. There was a question of how this impacts Edhellos' free will - is she possessed by Morgoth, with no memory of the actions she takes while Morgoth turns her into a sock puppet and takes over driving the bus? And if so, how do we depict that?
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/508534659
The first hour and half of the video is dedicated to intro and Episode 8. Starting at the 1:30, we switch to Episode 9.
In Episode 8, there were concerns with how the Spell of Bottomless Dread is depicted. There was a question of how this impacts Edhellos' free will - is she possessed by Morgoth, with no memory of the actions she takes while Morgoth turns her into a sock puppet and takes over driving the bus? And if so, how do we depict that?
- Consensus was that the 'broken' aspect of seeing things from Edhellos' perspective would only happen when Morgoth is not running the show. She can see Morgoth's eyes in the people around her and suffer from her trauma in some way. She is unaware of the actions Morgoth forces her to perform.
- When Morgoth is running the show, we do not see the scene from Edhellos' perspective. We see this from someone else's point of view, and see that she is acting possessed/not herself. The importance for this choice is making sure Edhellos does not appear complicit or a traitor. Her will is not her own.
- He does not want this battle to be a 'dry run' for the Dagor Bragollach. He wants it to have an objective beyond merely testing the waters.
- The objective should be the capture of Minas Tirith and breaching the defenses of Northern Beleriand.
- Elves mowing down orcs like grain will be somewhat boring to watch.
- Creating stakes for the elves is necessary.
- The Dagor Aglareb is a failure for the villains. Therefore, someone needs egg on their face. Corey Olsen's strong preference is for Gothmog to suffer this humiliation. Gothmog is a hammer; blunt instrument, and a bit of a fool. This is the *only* real action Gothmog will take all season. His rivalry with Sauron is empty if he does nothing but sit in Angband and taunt Sauron.
- Rhiannon would prefer it be Sauron. Corey wants Sauron to be on the ascendant; all he does is win until he meets Lúthien and Huan.
- Leaving the balrogs out of the battle feels like foolish ofermod. There seems no reason (or only foolish/contrived reasons) to leave them out. It would require an explanation for the audience as to why they are absent.
- Corey is not worried about showing the balrogs retreating. They cut through their own troops pitilessly; they force their own troops towards the elves to stop pursuit and leave themselves. Ruthlessness rather than cowardice would be clear.
- The advantages of including the balrogs are that the battle is scarier (the orcs have a chance) and the balrogs get to demonstrate their traits in action and develop their characters a bit.
- The alternative to balrogs would be to have overwhelming numbers of orcs. A zombie horde is intimidating, even if each individual zombie is easy to kill.
- The outcome of this battle should be overconfidence on the part of the Noldor. That means they have to face more than merely orcs.
- Another question is how balrogs interact with armies.
- One option: They lead from the back, whipping the orcs into battle.
- Gothmog as leader can act differently from the other balrogs.
- If they do appear on the battlefield, we should give them the opportunity to demonstrate their fighting skills.
- No matter what, Edhellos is dying in this episode. She has been developed as a character throughout this season, especially in Episode 6.
- The audience has gotten to know her, and by this point in the show, Edhellos is as important a character as her husband. (Though obviously she does not appear in the published Silmarillion.)
- Therefore, if Gothmog kills Edhellos, that will satisfy the requirements of the 'balrog rule.'
- Gothmog's motivation for killing Edhellos is to destroy Sauron's pet project. Perfect opportunity for him to namedrop 'Sauron'.
- Rhiannon wants Sauron to be present in the battle and to be the one to kill Edhellos. This allows for a personal confrontation between Sauron and Angrod and Aegnor.
- Corey Olsen does not see Sauron being on the battlefield, nor does he want Sauron's agents (werewolves, cats, vampires) as part of this battle.
- Angrod's death is not needed in this battle.
- He is a valid option for the 'balrog rule' death, because he has no further important role to play.
- There are reasons to kill him now. Corey Olsen sees better net gains from his death than his continued life at this point in the story, but is not wed to the idea of killing him at this moment.
- The death of Edhellos is sufficient pathos for one episode.
- Tolkien's decision to kill off minor characters in 'batches' (Angrod and Aegnor at the Dagor Bragollach; Celegorm, Curufin, and Caranthir in the Kinslaying at Doriath) fits the summary style of the published Silmarillion, but may be the type of detail we intentionally alter in our adaptation, by 'unbatching' the deaths.
- Rhiannon requested a chance to write a battle scene in which balrogs appear, but Sauron kills Edhellos.
- Corey's caveat was no werewolves or vampires, and that this be Gothmog's initiative and troops. (Having them capture Rhogrin and Annael outside the battlefield is fine.)
- "If a balrog doesn't get to smash anybody, I'm gonna get a little twitchy, though."
- Gothmog killing Angrod would be necessary if Sauron kills Edhellos.
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Ok I’ve slept on the matter and processed it a bit more. If the choice is between Angrod and Edhellos dying now, or Angrod and Aegnor dying (or being MIA) later, I maintain that it would be ‘neater’ (as MithLuin says Corey probably thinks) to kill Angrod off now. But I agree with Nick (if I understand you correctly) that it is a weak argument. The important questions should be about the theme of the Story. What emotions and ideas should the Silmarillion story convey, in our adaptation? I think that the pain of loss and various emotions/ideas of futility and heroism in the face of monstrous evil is of importance, and a sudden death would be less fitting than one that is prolonged. So, it would be better to show Angrod either living on for a while in sorrow, or saving/redeeming Edhellos now in some way (but dying in the process).
Edit: Notice a number of posts I haven’t read. Ill get back
Edit: Notice a number of posts I haven’t read. Ill get back
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Ange1e4e5
Well-Known Member
Is it really a dry run for the Dagor Bragollach? I thought the rivers of fire don't come until later.
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
Dry run = without rivers
Ange1e4e5
Well-Known Member
I would like Sauron to be doing something up to the Dagor Bragollach other than torturing prisoners, but I’m fine with him not being at the Dagor Aglareb. I have an idea of him killing Elves participating in the Siege of Angband every so often, and the carnage he leaves leads to his moniker “Gorthaur the Cruel”.
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
I don't know if that is necessary. Taking the form of a woman's husband to extract information from her and psychologically torture her thereafter is pretty cruel.
Ange1e4e5
Well-Known Member
This isn’t for the Dagor Aglareb, this is for between that and the Dagor Bragollach as a general plot line for Sauron.
My idea probably sucks.
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Ange1e4e5
Well-Known Member
Said Balrog could choose to just kill him; just look at Gothmog chopping Fingon in half in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad. He could have just captured him and it would have accomplished the same thing: the field was lost. But he chose to kill him.
Rhiannon
Well-Known Member
Roles for Angrod post Dagor Aglareb:
- Being relieved when Men arrive to strengthen Dorthonion. "The people of Beor came to Dorthonion and dwelt in lands ruled by the house of Finarfin." Angrod isn't mentioned by name here, but he is clearly one of the Elven lords whom Men serve. Since Episode 4, I have been hinting that Dorthonion is one of the weakest realms of the Noldor because they have few soldiers, and had Angrod most concerned about this. What I intended was to resolve this issue when Men arrive, providing Dorthonion with the number of soldiers it needs. However, this ties into my second point:
- Demonstrating how Elves view Men. In the "Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth," Andreth says, "'We may be "Children of Eru", as ye say in your lore; but we are children to you also: to be loved a little maybe, and yet creatures of less worth, upon whom ye may look down from the height of your power and your knowledge, with a smile, or with pity, or with a shaking of heads.'" Because of his relationship with Andreth, Aegnor should really not be one who considers Men "creatures of less worth" (though Andreth may interpret his turning away from her as such). Angrod, however, would be the ideal character to demonstrate this view of Men. While not as disdainful of Men as people like Caranthir, Angrod could certainly see them as lesser, with a lot of their value coming from their ability to help the Elves in the war against Morgoth. I'm not saying that Angrod would only see Men as tools to use in the war nor that he does not respect their lives, but his interactions with Men could demonstrate that he thinks of them more as a group than as individuals. This could be demonstrated to Andreth in a scene where she interacts with both Angrod and Aegnor, and Aegnor treats her as equal but Angrod does not.
- Reminding the viewers what Elvish relationships are like. According to "Laws and Customs among the Eldar," "The Eldar wedded once only in life." Angrod will never marry anyone other than Edhellos, and technically they are still married even though she is dead. They will be together again when Angrod dies and if they choose to leave Mandos. It will be good to remind viewers that this is how Elven relationships are in order to set up the contrast with Aegnor and Andreth and explain why Aegnor "'will not wish to return [from Mandos]'" since he cannot be with Andreth. We won't have much of an opportunity to show Aegnor being sad without Andreth because there is so little time between their meeting and his death, and he dies before she does. If we wanted, we could even have Angrod be the one who tells Andreth that Aegnor is dead.
- Not trusting escaped prisoners. The Silmarillion says "But ever the Noldor feared most the treachery of those of their own kin, who had been thralls in Angband; for Morgoth used some of these for his evil purposes . . . Therefore if any of his captives escaped in truth, and returned to their own people, they had little welcome, and wandered alone outlawed and desperate." Now, I don't think we want Angrod to reveal Edhellos' treachery to everyone, nor do I think we want the Noldor to be as mistrustful as they will be after Annael's treachery is discovered, but we can certainly foreshadow this by having Angrod be skeptical about anyone who escapes from Angband. He could even warn Fingon not trust Annael and Rhogrin when they escape then have an "I-told-you-so" moment.
- Reconciliation of the houses of the Noldor. We have set up Angrod as the most distrustful of the house of Feanor because they are kinslayers and betrayed the houses of Fingolfin and Finarfin. However, just before her death, Edhellos revealed to Angrod that she was a kinslayer and traitor, which will force him to change his view on the Feanorians. This can be shown by his approval of Celebrimbor and Orodreth's friendship and his sympathy for Curufin, whose wife was also taken to Angband. I would also love to show Angrod reconciling with Caranthir, which has the potential to be both touching and a little humorous.
- Wanting to attack Angband. "Now Fingolfin, King of the North . . . pondered once more assault upon Angband . . . Among the chieftans of the Noldor Angrod and Aegnor alone were of like mind with the King . . ." Angrod is mentioned in the text here. I don't think I need to further explain why this is a role he can play, nor do I need to explain why, in our adaptation, Angrod would be the most in favor of attacking Angband.
- Victim of running flames/Orcs/Glaurung/Balrogs in the Dagor Bragollach. There are lots of dangerous things in the Dagor Bragollach, and we can have one of these things kill Angrod to demonstrate this. I would be happy with whatever kills Angrod as long as he is killed in the Dagor Bragollach, but my personal preference is for Glaurung to kill Angrod and Aegnor for a few reasons:
- I would like Angrod and Aegnor to die together in a way that emphasizes their relationship as brothers. Most of the house of Finwe is spread out across Beleriand, but I think it's important to remember that they are a family.
- I would like Aegnor to be killed by something fiery and capable of speech, preferably Glaurung but at least a Balrog, because I want it to taunt him with something like "come to my fire, little moth" before killing him.
- Glaurung comes at the front of the assault, so this would make an individual confrontation with dialogue and a extended fighting, which generally makes for more entertaining television, more realistic.
- This gives Orodreth more reason to hate Glaurung.
- Cause of Fingolfin's despair. "Then news came to Hithlum that Dorthonion was lost and the sons of Finarfin overthrown . . . Then Fingolfin beheld (as it seemed to him) the utter ruin of the Noldor, and defeat beyond redress of all their houses; and filled with wrath and depair he mounetd upon Rochallor his great horse . . ." I've mentioned before how important I think it is that Fingolfin's great duel with Morgoth be provoked by more than just the death of Aegnor. It was brought up in the discussion on Thursday that Tolkien often kills important characters in batches and that it might be more effective to spread these deaths out. I would argue that it isn't and that Tolkien groups deaths of major characters like that in order to emphasize how bad particular events are. The situation in Beleriand isn't in smooth decline; it gets progressively worse after certain events, such as the Dagor Bragollach; the Nirnaeth Arnoediad; the Falls of Nargothrond, Doriath, and Gondolin; and the Second and Third Kinslayings. In all of these events, major characters die. Characters that the story has focused on most, such as Fingolfin, Fingon, Finrod, Thingol, and Turgon, die individually. Characters that have been less well-developed, such as Angrod and Aegnor; Celegorm, Caranthir, and Curufin; and Amrod and Amras, die in groups. The defeat of Dorthonion is not awful in The Silmarillion because of the loss of Angrod as a character or because of the loss of Aegnor as a character, but because two of the lords of the Noldor were killed. Moreover, the Dagor Aglareb is not one of those events after which things get a lot worse in Beleriand. It is a victory for the Noldor; the other events are losses. While it is not a victory that comes without loss, the contrast between victory and defeat will be much clearer if the death of Angrod is postponed until the Dagor Bragollach.
Rhiannon
Well-Known Member
Glaurung comes at the front of the fire, and the text mentions that "the sons of Finarfin bore most heavily the brunt of the assault." The Pass of Aglon falls when Celegorm and Curufin are defeated, then Maedhros closes it again. Then, the text mentions that Glaurung attacks Lothlann and passed through Maglor's Gap. This does not mean that Glaurung didn't attack Dorthonion first, and I think the time that elapsed suggests that he did.
*puts on Devil's Advocate hat*
(Potential) Roles for Angrod post Dagor Aglareb:
Obviously, I have no problem with Angrod surviving the Dagor Aglareb and dying in the Dagor Bragollach. And, certainly, if Angrod is still around in Season 5, we'll do stuff with him. He'll give Aegnor and Orodreth people to talk to about important things in their lives, and we'll see his grief over the loss of his wife, etc. He's probably still ambassador to Doriath? So, yeah, he'll be around, and then he'll be in the battle, and we'll give him a hero death scene, and that'll be that.
But I think it important to point out that he's not necessary for the story of Season 5 in any way. If we have him, we'll use him. If we don't, we'll make do just fine. When we say that he has no 'role' left, what we mean is this - he's not responsible for some action that only he can take, such as Turgon building Gondolin, or Finrod aiding Beren, or Aredhel's date with Eöl. He has things to do, but nothing pivotal/essential. Tolkien never ended his feud with Caranthir. Presumably, they dealt with it as most people do...they just avoided one another socially until Angrod died. His death happening a bit earlier isn't going to have any real impact on the story we are telling.
(Potential) Roles for Angrod post Dagor Aglareb:
- Being relieved when Men arrive to strengthen Dorthonion. "The people of Beor came to Dorthonion and dwelt in lands ruled by the house of Finarfin." Aegnor has this covered. And we want Aegnor to be the more significant character of the two brothers in Season 5.
- Demonstrating how Elves view Men. In the "Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth," Andreth says, "'We may be "Children of Eru", as ye say in your lore; but we are children to you also: to be loved a little maybe, and yet creatures of less worth, upon whom ye may look down from the height of your power and your knowledge, with a smile, or with pity, or with a shaking of heads.'" It's very likely that Andreth, in her bitterness, *is* referring to Aegnor there, assuming that he left her because she wasn't good enough for him. But even so, there are plenty of elven characters who can treat humans as children. Caranthir isn't going to be one of them; he ignores Men, and then is impressed with them. Despite Fëanorean pride and the failure of the Fëanoreans to get any Men living in their territory during the first 'wave' of the Edain, they're not necessarily the ones acting like this. The elves of Dorthonion and Mithrim/Hithlum, on the other hand, who have more interactions with Men.... I feel you have to choose, though - either Angrod would be excited by the Men coming to reinforce Dorthonion and strengthen them....or he would be dismissive and looking down on them as children. Probably not both at once?
- Reminding the viewers what Elvish relationships are like. According to "Laws and Customs among the Eldar," "The Eldar wedded once only in life." I agree that showing a widowed elf never remarrying is important. I think we have Turgon as the primary example of that (his wife is dead, and the audience watched her die on screen), and Fingolfin and Curufin as secondary ones (their wives are permanently parted from them, but not by death). While we could use Angrod for that as well, we can certainly make that point without him. We had discussions about this in Season 2 and 3, with the deaths of Míriel and Earwen. We will need to remind the audience, but I think there are enough widowed elves over the course of all Three Ages of Middle-earth to have an example ready to hand whenever we feel the need to bring the topic up.
- Not trusting escaped prisoners. The Silmarillion says "But ever the Noldor feared most the treachery of those of their own kin, who had been thralls in Angband; for Morgoth used some of these for his evil purposes . . . Therefore if any of his captives escaped in truth, and returned to their own people, they had little welcome, and wandered alone outlawed and desperate." Certainly, since Angrod *knows* that Edhellos was acting as a puppet of Morgoth, he would be obligated to warn the other elves not to trust the escaped prisoners. And certainly, if he's saying that, everyone would know that it would have something to do with his wife, thus raising suspicions about her (posthumously). If the one person who knew an escaped prisoner says not to trust them, it would be more surprising if Rhogrin and Annael were accepted back into their communities at all. Annael's betrayal would feel more inevitable than surprising under these circumstances. The viewer was never going to be surprised, being 'in on it' before Annael is discovered. But the elves will look really naive if they were warned and still didn't pay attention.
- Reconciliation of the houses of the Noldor. I agree that Angrod has been a key player in the intra-Noldor feud, and allowing him to finish his role by reconciling with the Fëanoreans in some capacity would be touching. Having him die before he has a chance to change his opinion shows that lost opportunity, which is...not exactly a problem for the Silmarillion! Galadriel's wedding in the Season Finale would be the ideal time/place for that, if we were going to have a scene with Angrod actually reconciling. But the bigger question is...would he? Sure, he'll forgive Edhellos her actions - it wasn't her fault. Caranthir being a jerk is...something more than that. Intra-Noldor tension is going to be an issue up through the Nirnaeth Arnoediad. So, I think we have to consider where we want Angrod to 'land' on this question prior to his death, without necessarily choosing to give him a 180° turn of his viewpoint.
- Wanting to attack Angband. "Now Fingolfin, King of the North . . . pondered once more assault upon Angband . . . Among the chieftans of the Noldor Angrod and Aegnor alone were of like mind with the King . . ." Certainly, if Angrod is alive, it will make sense for him to do that. If he is not around, Aegnor will fill that role in his absence. The textual reason for their eagerness is that their numbers have been greatly increased now that Men have moved into their territory, a reason that will be relevant whether or not Angrod is there.
- Victim of running flames/Orcs/Glaurung/Balrogs in the Dagor Bragollach. Certainly, there will be no shortage of things that could kill Angrod in the Dagor Bragollach. Likewise, there will be no shortage of characters (human and elven) to kill off in that battle. The running flames in particular will likely take out 'unnamed' characters.
- Cause of Fingolfin's despair. "Then news came to Hithlum that Dorthonion was lost and the sons of Finarfin overthrown . . . Then Fingolfin beheld (as it seemed to him) the utter ruin of the Noldor, and defeat beyond redress of all their houses; and filled with wrath and despair he mounted upon Rochallor his great horse . . ." I would suggest that the ruin of Dorthonion is a cause for despair in and of itself, setting aside the deaths of the Lords. Meaning, yes, Aegnor and Angrod die in the battle, but more importantly...Ard Galen is a dusty wasteland, their strongholds in Dorthonion are all destroyed, the Men and Elves have had to retreat, leaving only small bands of warriors behind in Dorthonion, and MORGOTH WON. It's the loss (of the battle and the Kingdom) that is throwing Fingolfin into despair, not the deaths of his nephews. So, if there's only one nephew left, and he dies, that's going to cause the same level of despair as if both surviving nephews die. I agree that Angrod *surviving* the Dagor Bragollach, and bringing his people elsewhere as refugees to rebuild, would be a note of hopefulness that we can't have. But no one is suggesting that. We're just suggesting that he already be dead before the battle happens...which is going to have zero impact on Fingolfin's despair.
Obviously, I have no problem with Angrod surviving the Dagor Aglareb and dying in the Dagor Bragollach. And, certainly, if Angrod is still around in Season 5, we'll do stuff with him. He'll give Aegnor and Orodreth people to talk to about important things in their lives, and we'll see his grief over the loss of his wife, etc. He's probably still ambassador to Doriath? So, yeah, he'll be around, and then he'll be in the battle, and we'll give him a hero death scene, and that'll be that.
But I think it important to point out that he's not necessary for the story of Season 5 in any way. If we have him, we'll use him. If we don't, we'll make do just fine. When we say that he has no 'role' left, what we mean is this - he's not responsible for some action that only he can take, such as Turgon building Gondolin, or Finrod aiding Beren, or Aredhel's date with Eöl. He has things to do, but nothing pivotal/essential. Tolkien never ended his feud with Caranthir. Presumably, they dealt with it as most people do...they just avoided one another socially until Angrod died. His death happening a bit earlier isn't going to have any real impact on the story we are telling.
Ange1e4e5
Well-Known Member
I suggest -going forward- that Angrod will be the first named character killed in the Dagor Bragollach. That battle's going to hit like a ton of bricks; Angrod, Aegnor, Bregolas, and Hador are slated to die in the battle itself, Fingolfin will be killed in single combat with Morgoth a year later. Andreth is also recorded as dying in that year, which feels like not a coincidence. I've had ideas for their last interaction and what happens to Aegnor.
Rhiannon
Well-Known Member
*puts on Saving Angrod hat*
Yes, it would be possible for these roles to be played by other characters, and much of what exactly will happen in Season 5 is yet to be determined. I wanted to demonstrate that there is plenty for Angrod to do in Season 5 without overshadowing his brother and that the story will not necessarily be better for his not being there. That would depend on how we choose to write it.
The Silmarillion is an excellent story, and I think our adaptation should strive to be as close to the book as it written as possible. We are not constrained by limitations in things like the length of our show or the budget, so there is really no need to cut anything from the story and make changes based on that, for example:
I'm fine with adding to the story; we must add material in order to make The Silmarillion into a full TV show. But changing the story is a different matter. We should be sure that any changes we make are improvements to the story. Angrod's death is not an improvement. To quote Leaf by Niggle, "'Things might have been different, but they could not have been better.'"
*does not take off Saving Angrod hat*
Yes, it would be possible for these roles to be played by other characters, and much of what exactly will happen in Season 5 is yet to be determined. I wanted to demonstrate that there is plenty for Angrod to do in Season 5 without overshadowing his brother and that the story will not necessarily be better for his not being there. That would depend on how we choose to write it.
The Silmarillion is an excellent story, and I think our adaptation should strive to be as close to the book as it written as possible. We are not constrained by limitations in things like the length of our show or the budget, so there is really no need to cut anything from the story and make changes based on that, for example:
I'm fine with adding to the story; we must add material in order to make The Silmarillion into a full TV show. But changing the story is a different matter. We should be sure that any changes we make are improvements to the story. Angrod's death is not an improvement. To quote Leaf by Niggle, "'Things might have been different, but they could not have been better.'"
*does not take off Saving Angrod hat*
Ange1e4e5
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't say imprisoning him in Angband (to give an example) is much of an improvement either.
How bad is my idea for Sauron? If it's bad, please tell me.
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Sauron's role in Season 5 will be implementing his plan of having escaped 'puppets' working as spies/traitors/sleeper agents among the Noldor.
So, he will put a whammy on Annael (Spell of Not So Bottomless Dread-lite), and then 'allow' Annael to escape. (The viewers might not be aware of this until later) Once Annael is back in Mithrim, we will see how Annael is 'compelled' to report to Sauron or his agent (Thuringwethil), scenes that will likely involve sleepwalking. Eventually, an elf will catch him doing this, and report him to everyone else. Annael will deny the accusation vehemently (as far as he knows, he was asleep in his bed), but some evidence will come out, and the witness knew what he saw/heard...resulting in Annael's self-imposed banishment to the woods.
Annael need not be the only 'escaped' prisoner Sauron does this to, but he's the only one whose story we are following the whole way through. If we want a sleeper agent in Dorthonion pre-Dagor Bragollach...we can have one, and that will be Sauron's pivotal move for the season.
So, he will put a whammy on Annael (Spell of Not So Bottomless Dread-lite), and then 'allow' Annael to escape. (The viewers might not be aware of this until later) Once Annael is back in Mithrim, we will see how Annael is 'compelled' to report to Sauron or his agent (Thuringwethil), scenes that will likely involve sleepwalking. Eventually, an elf will catch him doing this, and report him to everyone else. Annael will deny the accusation vehemently (as far as he knows, he was asleep in his bed), but some evidence will come out, and the witness knew what he saw/heard...resulting in Annael's self-imposed banishment to the woods.
Annael need not be the only 'escaped' prisoner Sauron does this to, but he's the only one whose story we are following the whole way through. If we want a sleeper agent in Dorthonion pre-Dagor Bragollach...we can have one, and that will be Sauron's pivotal move for the season.