Complete Cast List for Season Two

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
I was searching for actors and actresses thinking that we have a limited number of people who are suitable as elves, and that it would be wise to nominate the oldest of those now for the earlier generations of elves, even if elves probably look more or less the same age. If we are forced to have difference in apperance in the way their age come across, I thought it would be best if those who look younger are cast as younger generation elves. That's why I'm a bit concerned that the actresses chosen to play Galadriel and Eärwen are older-younger rather than younger-older (ok, less young, Diane Kruger is NOT old). In Galadriel's case of course there's the issue with Age of the Trees-Third Age differences, so there are good reasons to cast a mature actress because of that, but the combination of the two is problematic. I nominated Holliday Grainger so obviously I like her but I nominated her thinking a younger actress than Kruger could play Galadriel. Well, it's all a fantasy, so I guess I can live with it...
EDIT: And I like Kruger as Galadriel as well, especially for the Frame. I don't really care about the height as much Corey does.
 

Tungol

Member
If we are forced to have difference in apperance in the way their age come across, I thought it would be best if those who look younger are cast as younger generation elves. That's why I'm a bit concerned that the actresses chosen to play Galadriel and Eärwen are older-younger rather than younger-older (ok, less young, Diane Kruger is NOT old)
It's interesting how we are using age to distinguish the generations, given that Elves don't age in a human fashion. I guess it makes the most sense, given that we will have the ever-present problem of the audience keeping track of the genealogy.

It seems that unspoken rule is something like:
First generation: 40-55
Second generation: 30-45
Third generation (only Galadriel so far): 30-40?
Fourth generation (Idril, Maeglin, Celebrian, Orodreth): 25-35?
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
The list of actors the execs can't waste or fit better roles:
Haleth - Catheryn Winnick
Barahir, Brodda, Edain - Christian Bale
Glaurung, Ar-Pharazôn, Elros - Andrew Scott
More important role - Brie Larson
Recast as Melkor, if he comes on show! - Vin Diesel
Bëor - Eric Bana
Maeglin - David Tennant
Lobelia Sackville-Baggins - Daisy Ridley :D
Finduilas - Jewel Staite

And no, Keira Knightly got the role! Yeah!
I was saving Glaurung for Javier Bardem and Luthien for Ridley.
 
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Tungol

Member
So which generation are we thinking for Orodreth? Is he Finrod's nephew or brother?
Either way could make sense. I think we will have to cast Angrod and Aegnor, for when they die in the Dagor Bragollach. So, Orodreth could be their younger brother, or the son of Angrod, as in the canon.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Can Ridley sing? I think it crucial that Lúthien's actress have an amazing singing voice. (Other actors who need to be able to sing include: Finrod, Maglor, probably Daeron....)

It is my preference that Orodreth be Finrod's nephew. Otherwise, he's just another elf who needs to be there in Valinor for no reason (as he has no actual role until seasons 4-5). But the project hasn't made that call yet.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
It's interesting how we are using age to distinguish the generations, given that Elves don't age in a human fashion. I guess it makes the most sense, given that we will have the ever-present problem of the audience keeping track of the genealogy.

It seems that unspoken rule is something like:
First generation: 40-55
Second generation: 30-45
Third generation (only Galadriel so far): 30-40?
Fourth generation (Idril, Maeglin, Celebrian, Orodreth): 25-35?
We can't indefinitely choose younger and younger actors. Gil-Galad will be almost a teenager, right? And what about Gildor? Or Arwen?
But basically I agree with you. It's all connected to our limited access to actor pools outside of IMDb. We aren't acting agents and know none of them. These limitations forces us to choose between people like Daisy Ridley and people like Jennifer Connelly. We have to be careful and try to avoid casting Connelly as Ridley's daughter. This doesn't make sense from an elvish point of view but from the viewers' point of view.
 

amysrevenge

Well-Known Member
That's sort of why, for casting, I really think we might as well throw out real/current and go wide open - I've said it before, but of all the aspects of this theoretical project, casting is what is going to be least accurate/possible for a real project to pull off. The plots, scripts, and even production design and music could be slotted right in to a real production, at least as starting points, but the casting would pretty much have to be garbaged and done from zero.

Therefore, if we're doing casting at all, it might as well be "33 year-old Sean Connery" or "Labytinth-era David Bowie" or any other younger (or dead) actors. Because it's only a tiny bit less realistic than what we end up doing.

We're casting for type, not for expectation of that particular person as-of their current age performing the actual role. Even the ones we are already casting now. Can we honestly say we deliberately cast 56 year-old Carey Elwes as the ideal choice for Ingwe? Or did we really in our hearts cast 26 year-old Elwes from the Princess Bride?

ETA: I get it that this is an established Executive Decision and settled. I just think that we're all bending the ruling in spirit (both us volunteers and the Execs) all the time already. Might be worth a re-visit.
 
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Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
That's sort of why, for casting, I really think we might as well throw out real/current and go wide open - I've said it before, but of all the aspects of this theoretical project, casting is what is going to be least accurate/possible for a real project to pull off. The plots, scripts, and even production design and music could be slotted right in to a real production, at least as starting points, but the casting would pretty much have to be garbaged and done from zero.

Therefore, if we're doing casting at all, it might as well be "33 year-old Sean Connery" or "Labytinth-era David Bowie" or any other younger (or dead) actors. Because it's only a tiny bit less realistic than what we end up doing.

We're casting for type, not for expectation of that particular person as-of their current age performing the actual role. Even the ones we are already casting now. Can we honestly say we deliberately cast 56 year-old Carey Elwes as the ideal choice for Ingwe? Or did we really in our hearts cast 26 year-old Elwes from the Princess Bride?

ETA: I get it that this is an established Executive Decision and settled. I just think that we're all bending the ruling in spirit (both us volunteers and the Execs) all the time already. Might be worth a re-visit.

Glad to know there are other people who feel this way. ;)
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
I'm not too far away from that. My opinion is that we do one of two things: option one, the executives specify more clearly what kind of actors or actresses they're looking for ("height is really important for this one", or "a less known actor here"!) OR we skip the survey and just nominate a pool of actors or actresses for each role and the execs say which of these they think might work and which won't but don't decide one of them (so the pool just represents the kinds of people we can imagine). Or something between the two.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
The goal is not to come up with a realistic list of people who would actually agree to be cast in this TV show, should it ever become reality. The goal is to put faces to names, so we have an actual body to dress for the costumes and voices for the dialogue, etc. In other words, it is to make a choice of what a particular character looks and sounds like, possibly including personality if based strongly on a previous performance by a particular actor. And, yes, we could do that breaking the 'no dead actors' rule, but...as soon as you cast David Bowie, you have given up even the semblance of this being 'for real.' I think that the process of going through identifying the character well enough to cast them is useful to the project. Sure, this would have to all be redone if the project was going to happen in real life but 1) Christopher Tolkien is still alive and 2) No one in Hollywood is going to bother asking us for our opinion on anything even if the rights were available.

In some cases, we are definitely thinking, 'This guy, but 10-15 years ago.' That's because we are taking all the performances we're familiar with, and not always adjusting their ages accordingly. Míriel being Jennifer Connolly is apparently based on what everyone thought of 14-year-old Sarah in Labyrinth. But no one wants Míriel to be played by a 14 year old actress, so she's seen as someone who has aged into the role.

In the case of Carey Elwes, I am the one who nominated him, so I know that I was thinking not just about his comedy work in the 80s, but also his later roles. I see him as a chameleon who vanishes into the role, giving very non-typecast performances. His voice, his mannerisms; they change with the role...which is a good thing. I wasn't thinking that he would play Ingwë just like Westley! I was thinking that he could command dignity and respect in a minor role, and pull off the High King of all the Elves without being pompous or annoyingly self-righteous about it. He has a certain level of humility (when he wants to ;) ). I also realize he's old for an elf. We won't see him again after this season, most likely, though, so.....
 
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MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Not only is Holliday Grainger young, but she's very short as well. So, she will help make Galadriel look tall if they are in a scene together ;).
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
hmm... I wonder why we did vote at all.

Never mind, the first cast Mithluin posted was excellent, no role i couln'dt live with and very few where I had prefered somebody else.

Catheryn Winnick - Haleth
-Please not! The Blonde Amazon-Woman is so cliché...
i really think Haleth should be a small, wiry brunette with short hair.

Andrew Scott would indeed make a great Ar-Pharazon or Elros and i definitely can see Eric Bana as Beor, but
David Tennant as Maeglin... I don't see that!
 
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MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
hmm... I wonder why we did vote at all.
To be fair, they overturned a grand total of 8 results, and 2 of those were to select a runner-up who only lost by one vote (keep in mind that there are 3 execs, so....). So, 6 times (out of about 40 roles) they said, 'No, we just can't get behind this,' and almost always it was because they wanted to see that particular actor/actress in a more prominent role later. In the cases of ties or double wins, they had to make a decision of some sort anyway.

Granted, it's not like you couldn't cast Christian Bale as both the voice of Draugluin and Brodda the Easterling. That argument could be made. But if we are limiting ourselves to one role per actor/actress, then.... And certainly Paul Bettany couldn't have been both Beleg and Elwë!

The suggestions of who to save an actor/actress for aren't set in stone. It's not like we won't go through the same nomination process in several seasons. So, arguments can still be made for other actresses for Haleth, but at least we know she's meant to be up for consideration. [And, honestly, if we cast her as someone else like Idril before we get to that role, or wind up not casting her and then decide to use her for Eowyn later....there are options here.] The vote was mostly, 'how about not Celebrían?'

I can certainly understand how someone would consider Christian Bale to be a headline actor. I'm a little surprised that Jewel Staite is given similar status as 'too important to waste on a small role!', but, whatever, that's where we are. Most of the female roles are going to be small roles, with the exception of Galadriel, Lúthien, and anyone whose role we expand (Haleth, for instance). There are a grand total of 2 girls among Finwë's grandchildren (Aredhel and Galadriel), and likewise 2 among his great-grandchildren (Idril and Finduilas [depending on her generation, again.]) For the most part, the wives have non-existent roles. It's better with humans - Andreth, Morwen, Haleth, and Elwing (okay, so she's part-human) are all going to have interesting and uniquely tragic stories. So when someone expresses some confidence that we'll find a better role for Oscar Isaac, I believe them - even if we have to wait til humans appear to like his skin tone well enough for the role. With the actresses, it's a little more like, 'well, what do you consider a good role in this?'
 
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