Concerns About Season Four

I am still hoping and begging for a hildorien storyline !

I would really like us to use bits from the athrabeth finrod an andreth with the temple and fall of man and maybe the tu, nuin, ermon & elmir story from lost tales and us working out an original story from these bits before we have the edain appearing in beleriand. I would love that!
 
I think we will need to tease the arrival of Men, so it will make sense to have some scenes in Hildorien before Bëor meets Finrod.
 
We also could use the opportunity to pay morwe and nurwe a revisit... if we don't want to invent/recycle new avari characters like nuin, tu or tareg from lost tales, we could give nurwen or morwe parts of their roles or even eol.

I also like the story andreth refers to, the voice of eru, the great man ( melkor) and the first temple of evil... could be a good opportunity to show where these humans, edain and easterlings, actually fled from and which great sin they actually commited... the " dark things" beor doesn't want to talk about to thingol...
 
MithLuin said:
I think we will need to tease the arrival of Men, so it will make sense to have some scenes in Hildorien before Bëor meets Finrod.
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Honestly, I think that doing so makes Hildorien a separate plotline in S04 rather than a tease. I still think that our best bet is telling the Hildorien story after we have come to know men in relation to the existing story.
 
Nicholas Palazzo said:
Honestly, I think that doing so makes Hildorien a separate plotline in S04 rather than a tease. I still think that our best bet is telling the Hildorien story after we have come to know men in relation to the existing story.
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Perhaps in the talk between Andreth and Finrod?
 
Haerangil said:
We also could use the opportunity to pay morwe and nurwe a revisit... if we don't want to invent/recycle new avari characters like nuin, tu or tareg from lost tales, we could give nurwen or morwe parts of their roles or even eol.

I also like the story andreth refers to, the voice of eru, the great man ( melkor) and the first temple of evil... could be a good opportunity to show where these humans, edain and easterlings, actually fled from and which great sin they actually commited... the " dark things" beor doesn't want to talk about to thingol...
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I know in general we don't like flashbacks, but this seems like a great place to have one.
 
Well... eol is an avar, one of those who out of fullest conviction argued against following orome to the west... and suddenly he appears in beleriand. We should give an explanation why...
 
Is it too cliche to suggest that he made some enemies among the Dwarves further east?

Perhaps he left Kuivienen at first out of an antisocial desire to be alone, away from society.
 
Yes, but he could have gone anywhere, yet he turns up in Beleriand, where everybody he dislikes lives. It's not unlikely that he made himself enemies or fled from battles and dangers, much like the Nandor or Edain did.
 
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Would it stretch credulity if Eol had something to do with whatever chased the Edain west? Like, he knows all about them, and just never says anything to anyone?
 
amysrevenge said:
Would it stretch credulity if Eol had something to do with whatever chased the Edain west? Like, he knows all about them, and just never says anything to anyone?
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If we have Eol in Beleriand prior to the rising of the sun (established through flashback), that might cause some problems. If we have him as a newcomer after the first sunrise, it would work, though it kind of messes with his attitude towards the Noldor as interloping usurpers.
 
Nicholas Palazzo said:
If we have Eol in Beleriand prior to the rising of the sun (established through flashback), that might cause some problems. If we have him as a newcomer after the first sunrise, it would work, though it kind of messes with his attitude towards the Noldor as interloping usurpers.
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And I guess going back and forth would be unworkable. Improbable at best, goofy at worst.
 
He should be in Beleriand before the Sun rises, so he can object to the Girdle of Melian and ask for Nan Elmoth. Please let's use flashbacks to write the storyline we were planning to write for him, or one even closer to what's in the book.
 
The Hosts are generally very adverse to the use of flashback, and have a 'use very sparingly' approach to it. We got away with the farewell of Finrod and Amarië in flashback in Season 3, but that was more as a memory/dream of Finrod's in realtime. So, the decision to remove the Eol/Nan Elmoth storyline from Season 3 means it (essentially) hasn't happened yet. The plan is to have it happen early in Season 4, but I don't suppose there will be any convincing reason not to make it a 'real time' storyline at that time.

So, while we can certainly request a pre-rising-of-the-Sun scene for the purchase of Nan Elmoth, we'd have to have a pretty good argument for doing it that way, but out of sequence.

Basically, we have to figure out how the 'Eöl moves into Nan Elmoth' story fits in with the other Season 4 storylines. Certainly, it would seem to tie into the 'Noldor claim their kingdoms', and the idea that Eöl has to actually purchase the land would be in contrast to that....

I am not too worried about finding excuses for Eöl to be anti-social and dislike everyone. I think that will happen no matter how or when we tell his story.
 
The decision of non-linear storytelling was bothering me from the beginning, just as the frame... but i don't wanna start again with it... now that we've come so far
 
I think we do have three very good arguments why we should be allowed to tell the story from the book:

1. Eol would only claim he has more right to live in Beleriand than the Noldor do if he arrives before they do, not years afterwards. It's a significant part of his story and character that he was there first, years before the Noldor, and that he enjoyed peace in Beleriand and blamed the Noldor for starting the war with Morgoth -- not just that he has a generic, unspecific dislike of them for no reason. And that he got to know the Dwarves long before they met any Noldor. If he hates the Noldor for no reason at all, then he'll be like a characature of the original character. Eol in the book is a nasty person, but he actually has reasons for what he thinks and does -- they're generally bad reasons, but they make sense to him and he can tell them to other people -- he doesn't just hate people at random. If it was just reflexive xenophobia or being antisocial, he'd hate the Dwarves, too.

2. His choice to live in Nan Elmoth was also supposed to be about finding someplace safe in Beleriand, but outside the Girdle of Melian. That doesn't matter if the Feanorians have already killed all the Orcs, the Girdle is a decade old, and the Spiders are long gone, by the time Eol shows up -- he could live anywhere at all, without paying for it with magic swords, so why would he bother to pay for Nan Elmoth? Why would he choose that place, after the Noldor arrive? If he hates them, he wouldn't even emigrate into Beleriand, after it's settled by Noldor and he has to pass through Feanorian territory just to get to Nan Elmoth. How would he even know what Nan Elmoth is, or speak Sindarin, or know to ask Thingol's permission, if he had no prior contact with the Sindar?

3. How would we depict him hating the Sun and Moon and longing for the ancient time of starlight, if he doesn't show up until after the Sunrise? His unhappiness wouldn't really have meaning without contrasting it to a previous time when we show him to actually be content or happy, before the Sun rises.

None of the above would make sense if he arrived after the Noldor were already established in Middle-earth. Making him a late-comer to Beleriand instead of someone who lived there for many years fundamentally changes who the character is.



If the Hosts dislike flashbacks that much, then I wish they would allow us to tell the stories in chronological order, in the first place.
 
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