Session 4-20: Episodes 9 (& 10)

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Will have to find my copy of The Fall of Gondolin, but as the matter stands as of the Tolkien database, this is the case.
Whether Gothmog is the first to fall or not, I'm also against any balrog deaths prior to the Fall of Gondolin. I really like how waiting until then sets those deaths up as a "Big Deal" and also gives the reader/viewer a false hope that just maybe this will all turn out ok. (Spoiler Alert: It isn't.)
 
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amysrevenge

Well-Known Member
I had sort of vaguely wanted to make one work earlier, but you're right, this is the payoff moment with them.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
Whether Gothmog is the first to fall or not, I'm also against any balrog deaths prior to the Fall of Gondolin. I really like how doing so sets those deaths up as a "Big Deal" and also gives the reader/viewer a false hope that just maybe this will all turn out ok. (Spoiler Alert: It isn't.)
Yeah I mean.... The Balrogs seem invincible, right? And Gondolin is invaded, everything points to a disaster. Then, suddenly, Ecthelion thrusts his head into the belly of the leader of the Balrogs, and he dies! It’s a shocker, and when Glorfindel brings another one down, the tide seems to be turning. The other way around... Well that could work too, but it doesn’t have the same shock value.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Yeah I mean.... The Balrogs seem invincible, right? And Gondolin is invaded, everything points to a disaster. Then, suddenly, Ecthelion thrusts his head into the belly of the leader of the Balrogs, and he dies! It’s a shocker, and when Glorfindel brings another one down, the tide seems to be turning. The other way around... Well that could work too, but it doesn’t have the same shock value.
Except that the tide’s already turned into a wave when Glorfindel brings down the other one; that Balrog is attacking the fleeing refugees in the mountains. It’s more of a garbage-time thing, like the losing team scoring a touchdown in the final minute of a rout.
 
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Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Except that the tide’s already turned into a wave when Glorfindel brings down the other one; that Balrog is attacking the fleeing refugees in the mountains. It’s more of a garbage-time thing, like the losing team scoring a touchdown in the final minute of a rout.

We can (and probably will) toy around with the timing to make the events more dramatic when necessary.
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
Yes ok. I remember. Let’s leave it a mystery. But my main point is that we kill most of them off in the War of Wrath, but a couple in the fall of Gondolin.

Is it clear that Ecthelion kills Gothmog (and dies) before Glorfindel kills a balrog (and dies)?
In The Fall of Gondolin, Tuor is present at both events, and Glorfindel faces the Balrog to save the exiles the night after the night of the Fall of Gondolin. Maybe it would be good to have the two Balrog duels happen in separate episodes, with one episode focusing on the attack on Gondolin and the other focusing on those who escape.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
A question for Season 8 or 9, certainly.

As of right now, no balrogs are slated to die in the Dagor Bragollach (and no dragons, either, clearly).

We likely *will* kill off Tevildo or Boldog or Thuringwethil in connection with that battle, though. A question for Season 5, though.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
A question for Season 8 or 9, certainly.

As of right now, no balrogs are slated to die in the Dagor Bragollach (and no dragons, either, clearly).

We likely *will* kill off Tevildo or Boldog or Thuringwethil in connection with that battle, though. A question for Season 5, though.
Not Thuringwethil. Her skin has to be intact enough for Luthien to use as a disguise, and there’s a 10 year gap between the Dagor Bragollach and Beren and Luthien.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
A question for Season 8 or 9, certainly.

As of right now, no balrogs are slated to die in the Dagor Bragollach (and no dragons, either, clearly).

We likely *will* kill off Tevildo or Boldog or Thuringwethil in connection with that battle, though. A question for Season 5, though.
We could have Boldog killed in the Dagor Bragollach, and Tevildo and Thuringwethil killed during Beren and Luthien. Tevildo could get killed hunting Beren in the four years between the massacre of the outlaws and Beren's flight to Doriath. We don't need his hide as a disguise, but we do need Thurwingwethil's.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
Not Thuringwethil. Her skin has to be intact enough for Luthien to use as a disguise, and there’s a 10 year gap between the Dagor Bragollach and Beren and Luthien.
Actually... Maybe... If Thuringwethil dies some time before Lúthien is at Tol Sirion, Sauron could have preserved her Bat skin as a memory of her... It could be magical.. It’s in keeping with his necromantic hobbies.

And Lúthien would not have to skin Thuringwethil.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Actually... Maybe... If Thuringwethil dies some time before Lúthien is at Tol Sirion, Sauron could have preserved her Bat skin as a memory of her... It could be magical.. It’s in keeping with his necromantic hobbies.
Never took Sauron for a taxidermist. Or a particularly sentimental being.
 
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Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
Yeah I’m aware that it’s not the first thing that comes to mind when you talk about Sauron. :) Just brainstorming. But admit that it would be good if Lúthien could avoid the skinning.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Yeah I’m aware that it’s not the first thing that comes to mind when you talk about Sauron. :) Just brainstorming. But admit that it would be good if Lúthien could avoid the skinning.
Maybe her body vanishes and her shapeshifting cloak remains ala Obi-wan, or Huan does it offscreen?

 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
Can’t see how Huan would do that. And I don’t like the sudden appearance of the skin without explanation. I would rather have Luthien do it.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
Ok sorry I forgot that we actually had decided that. But that’s good. The taxidermist Sauron is for another adaptation. :)
 
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