A Place to Park my Thoughts

Discussion in 'Season 2' started by Anastasia, Dec 22, 2016.

  1. Haerangil

    Haerangil Active Member

    I like the Vanyar and Teleri, the female Noldo is nice too, but the male Noldo looks a bit to baroque or chichi for my tastes... but maybe that's just me.
     
  2. Marielle

    Marielle Well-Known Member

    Fair enough, but the Noldor are going to get more and more ornate as we go along, and they might very well have a fair amount of the Rococo by the end...
     
  3. Bre

    Bre Active Member

    I like bouncing ideas of you too. You always had great suggestions on how to make my ideas more grounded in reality or improve the idea based on the direction I was trying to go for.
     
  4. MithLuin

    MithLuin Well-Known Member

    Well, we made it through costuming today, and I think the designs were fairly well received! Certain aspects they really liked. I was only able to share some of Anastasia's explanations with them, but they seemed to understand what we were going for as it went along.

    They certainly understand why there were 'no pants' in the beginning.

    I do think they want the male Noldor to be as ornate/decorated/showing off as the female Noldor. So, that's good - we're all on the same page so far. They figured out that the structured necklines were for the 'unrest of the Noldor' time period before I told them.

    I did not bring up the 'rapid cultural development' issue of new wardrobes in practically every episode through this season; they just seemed to accept the progression and the radical changes that Valinor would bring. They really liked Ingwë's new robes after he returned.

    There was a lot of discussion of the idea of elvish tattoos. I think it was revealed that we were bringing our own cultural assumptions about what tattoos might mean to the table there. The Avari's unwillingness to accept changes makes them better candidates for permanent body art than the changeful 'fashion of the week' Noldor; the Vanyar might also make permanent life choices like that. The suggestion was made to consider body paint/henna rather that tattoos for the Noldor if we want to incorporate that into their designs at any point.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2017
  5. amysrevenge

    amysrevenge Active Member

    Regarding tattoos, there might be different levels of "permanent" as well - maybe something that would fade out after a measly century or so.
     
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  6. Haerangil

    Haerangil Active Member

    i believe men and orcs can have tattoos... do we give tattoos to elves and. dearves?

    they won't make much sense for maiar i guess... sime have blue or green skin or hirns and wings.if they wanted funny marks on their bidues they woukd simply generate them instead of using ink or bodypaint...
     
  7. Ange1e4e5

    Ange1e4e5 Active Member

    Well, if it isn't Baroque, don't fix it.

    What does chichi mean?
     
  8. Nicholas Palazzo

    Nicholas Palazzo Well-Known Member

    chi·chi1
    ˈSHēSHē,ˈCHēˌCHē/
    adjective
    1. 1.
      attempting stylish elegance but achieving only an overelaborate pretentiousness.
      "the chichi world of Manhattan cultural privilege"
    noun
    1. 1.
      pretentious and overelaborate refinement.
      "the relentless chichi of late-eighties dining"
     
  9. MithLuin

    MithLuin Well-Known Member

    This is a moment where it's important to keep in mind our own modern Western styles and how that might influence our views of other fantasy styles. Meaning....why is the female Noldo outfit good, but the male outfit overdone? Is one really more elaborate/out there than the other? Or...is it possible that we have trouble picturing a man being caught dead wearing something like that, whereas we don't bat an eye at the idea of a woman wearing a 'fancy dress'?

    Obviously, that doesn't have to be the only reason someone might not like the design, but it's something to keep in mind. We live in a society where dressing up for men means wearing a suit in conservative colors (greys, black, navy, *maybe* white or brown), but for women it can involve any color dress in a wide variety of styles and decorations. Women can wear fancy necklaces, earrings, rings and bracelets, but men wear....a watch, one ring and maybe cufflinks or a tie-pin. WAY toned down compared to women's fashion. Like the opposite of birds' plumage ;).

    While I don't want our designs to be alarmingly distasteful to the modern audience (not the Noldor in Valinor, anyway!), I think we need a bit of ostentation in our male Noldor - it's obviously part of their culture to show off with jewelry, and that's not primarily or exclusively for the women.

    And no, we aren't allowed to put the Noldor in suits. :p~
     
  10. Haerangil

    Haerangil Active Member

    no offense here.. just my personal feelings about that one costume. and of course we should give a thought or two about our own western conects and misconceptions... i mean the imaginary audience would share such preconceptions.
     
  11. MithLuin

    MithLuin Well-Known Member

    Toned down fashion for men is very modern (hence my reference to suits) and out of place for the Noldor in Valinor. It's our job to train the audience to see what we want them to see in the costumes. So, yes, we can't design something that reads only as flamboyant. But the Execs did seem to like the designs, so...
     
  12. ruth barratt

    ruth barratt Member

    Now I'm not saying we use these styles it's more for colour and embroidery ideas for "jazzing" up the boys abit. images.jpg images0XW3WYZB.jpg images02NWK85K.jpg imagesUBH7MZ72.jpg
    I think Some thing like the first one would look amazing with jewels and other shiny bits
     
  13. ruth barratt

    ruth barratt Member

    just a couple more I love the yellow and blue one ( I know its on a girl but would look brill on some of the boys we have cast) everyday2.jpg imagesNJOTG3WS.jpg imagesWPHBX8V6.jpg 160321_r27828-1200x630-1458070917.jpg
     
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  14. MithLuin

    MithLuin Well-Known Member

    The third one is gorgeous! I love how busy it is, and it would easily fit in with the elf designs in Peter Jackson's films (well, his Elrond, anyway).
     
  15. ruth barratt

    ruth barratt Member

    I was thinking may be good for if we them to have a "Sunday best" look for feast or weddings maybe
     
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  16. MithLuin

    MithLuin Well-Known Member

    We did enjoy planning a *lot* of feasts and weddings for Season 2!

    Episode 3: Wedding of Finwë and Míriel at Cuiviénen
    Episode 7: Wedding of Finwë and Indis (official state wedding turned private affair when the public scandal of it hits), Wedding of Fëanor and Nerdanel (more 'normal')
    Episode 8: Official presentation of Finwë's grandchildren to Ingwë (not exactly a feast, but definitely formal)
    Episode 9: Naming ceremony of Amrod and Amras (family party) and wedding of Turgon and Elenwë
    Episode 12: Feast of Reconciliation with the Valar on Taniquetal.

    Note that the Teleri are conspicuously absent from these formal events - they wouldn't have much need for formal outfits. But plenty of opportunities for the Noldor to show up the Vanyar by being more elaborate and ostentatious in their dress.
     
  17. Haerangil

    Haerangil Active Member

    training the audience... that's an illusion. but nevermind...
     
  18. MithLuin

    MithLuin Well-Known Member

    Well, this audience better be trainable, or they'll never get the stories about elvish immortality and reincarnation and why remarriage is forbidden. But I of course see your point - their perceptions are what they are. We can only stretch them so much to see things with new eyes - part of what we have to do is to show them new things that they will interpret with their preconceived notions to understand what we are saying.

    I just think that modern audiences are trained to see elaborate dress for men in historical or foreign settings and think nothing of it, so we should build on that for our fantasy elf couture ;).
     
  19. ruth barratt

    ruth barratt Member

    That was my thinking MithLuin, I could see Feanor in the PJ Elrond ish robes at his wedding.
    I was thinking that the Teleri would stick to the found objects like we had for the early elfs. We could even have special shells or something so it gets passed down, e.g. "granddad found this on the beach were he first ran in to Grandma, it is a sign of their love and has come though the line to you keep it safe"
     
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  20. ruth barratt

    ruth barratt Member

    I've been thinking some more on the Noldor outfits and was thinking that using fabric from Asia may be good they use a lot of metal thread and jewels. these are just a few pics.
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