Session 4.02 - Season 4 Episode Outlines

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
That’s some impressive work, that outline! Speaking from experience, having written an outline for last season in order to convince the execs of a better way to do season 3, I think I’m not wrong if I say that the level of detail is perhaps a bit too high, or somewhat premature. On a general level, I like the outline, but there are a lot of smaller details that we could deal with during episode processing, or we’d get stuck right now discussing them and thereby blocking the whole outline. I mean, we don’t have to decide now exactly what Maedhros says to his brothers when he returns with Fingon, who joins Angrod to Doriath, when Norn dies, and so on. Again, I don’t necessarily disagree with your ideas. On the contrary, I like most of them. But if you are aiming to use this to change Corey’s mind, my advice would be to cut it down to a third of what you have right now. This outline is of course still valuable in the coming work, though.
 

Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
Yes writing a shorter version is a good idea, LOL. I don’t think I can manage one third, but the version below is now less than half as long. To clarify, I’m only hoping to persuade the Hosts to change their minds about a few things, mainly Eol. My proposal puts Dagor Aglareb, Thingol’s Ban, Nargothrond, and Gondolin in the order the Hosts want.

I have to say, it’s really great to be able to share ideas and write collaboratively. I’ve never had the courage to write fanfic on my own.

Edited: adjusting Amras' trajectory based on an idea from Corey. trying to abridge even more.



Not yet worked in: the capture of Elves, the escape of some, the release of others under the Spell of Bottomless Dread.


Episode 1: Intersections and Intentions
Fingolfin’s folk meet Círdan, then the Fëanorians.

Fingolfin learns Fëanor is dead. Fingon learns Maedhros is missing.

Finrod ‘cheats’ with telepathy and learns Sindarin absurdly fast. He acts as a translator until the other Noldor learn it.

Círdan is happy to meet Elves from Valinor. He asks after Finwë and Olwë, and asks why the Noldor have returned. The Noldor dissemble. Nobody mentions the Kinslaying. They claim they came to fight Morgoth.

Cirdan sends Annael to Doriath as a messenger. Thingol’s reaction isn’t shown.

Celeborn and Galadriel have a first conversation. There’s a mutual respect and interest.

The Noldor remain divided. The Fëanoreans are uncomfortable to see the Elves they betrayed. They’re stuck and Maglor is not a decisive leader. Fingolfin re-forges Ringil – is he planning to fight the Fëanorians, or Morgoth, or both?

Angband: After the shock of the Sun wears off, Morgoth laughs at the division of his enemies. A cloud of smoke hides Angband from the Sun, and spreads ominously over Mithrim.

End of episode 1: Reforging Ringil? Ominous clouds? Fingon is missing? Rescue of Maedhros?


either Episode 1 or Episode 2 (end of 1 or start of 2)
Seeing the cloud of smoke, Fingon gets an idea, and departs. He rescues Maedhros, with Thorondor’s help.


Episode 2: Diplomacy
The Noldor reunite, but tensions remain. Maedhros begins to recuperate.

The Noldor send scouts around Beleriand and Ard-galen. Ecthelion leads one scouting group. In a skirmish with spying Werewolves or demon-lions, Ecthelion is amazing and awesome.

Finrod sends Angrod to Doriath as an ambassador, but cautions him to speak as little of the Fëanoreans as possible.

Angband: The villains are alarmed by Thorondor’s involvement in Maedhros’ rescue. Morgoth suspects that Men have awakened.

Doriath: Thingol asks Angrod about Olwë and Finwë. Angrod tells a very whitewashed story about the Darkening of Valinor. He avoids mentioning the Silmarils, the rebellion, the Kinslaying, or Finwë’s murder and the succession crisis. He doesn’t call the Noldor emissaries of the Valar, but paints them as coming to defeat Morgoth and help the Sindar.

Thingol is less than satisfied with this tale. He allows the Noldor to settle the north, but declares Doriath off-limits.


either Episode 2 or Episode 3 (end of 2 or start of 3) :
Angrod returns from Doriath. The Noldor hold council. But when Angrod presents Thingol’s words, Caranthir has a violent reaction. Maedhros rebukes Caranthir but dismisses Thingol’s authority outside his own borders.


Episode 3: Crowning the High King
The Noldor conclude their convocation. It is expected that the Host of Fingolfin will select Fingolfin and the Host of Fëanor will select Maedhros, and they will permanently split into separate peoples. Maedhros surprises them by declaring Fingolfin the heir of Finwë. Fingolfin is crowned High King.

The three houses decide where they will settle.


Episode 4: Places Set Apart
Galadriel goes to Doriath to become Melian’s pupil.

The Fëanorians move east, where Eöl is outraged at his new neighbors. While the Fëanorians begin building castles in the present, we learn through ‘flashbacks’ (for lack of a better word) that Eöl came to Nan Elmoth when the Moon and Sun rose, to use Melian's lingering enchantment to create a shroud of darkness. He discusses the injustice of the new situation with his servants, and with Dwarven visitors. He came to Nan Elmoth to get away from arrogant people, not to meet new ones!

Amras initially lives in Himring, judging/annoying his brothers.

(If the Fëanorian accidentally hunt Petty-Dwarves, this is the most plausible time to do it: before the Noldor meet any other Dwarves. I'd prefer that they don't hunt Dwarves.)


either Episode 4 or Episode 5:
“Of Beleriand and its Realms”. The Houses of Fingolfin and Finarfin establish their realms.

Many Falathrim move north to Nevrast and Mithrim.

Villain storyline: Morgoth is away from Angband for secret reasons. Sauron sends doppleganger spies among the Noldor. They learn some of the High Elves’ shameful secrets.

(Morgoth discovers Men in Hildórien, but avoids showing them his terrible Dark Lord form.)


Episode 5: Mereth Aderthad
Turgon hosts Fingolfin’s Feast in Nevrast. Attending: all of the houses of Fingolfin and Finarfin, Galadriel, Maedhros, Maglor, Beleg, Mablung, Daeron, Círdan, Celeborn, Annael. Maybe Amras?

NOT attending: Thingol, Melian, Lúthien, Eöl, the other sons of Fëanor, nor any Dwarves.

Daeron and Maglor singing contest? duet?

A ‘false peace’ exists, as the Sindar don’t know the truth about the Noldor, and Morgoth doesn’t seem to be doing anything significant.

Celeborn and Galadriel have a heart-to-heart. Galadriel reveals some of the darkness over the Noldor, but focuses on the personal tragedy of losing her mother. She doesn’t reveal the Kinslaying. Celeborn is sympathetic, and considerate towards her pain. Orodreth meets a lovely Sinda lady (Meril).

Sauron, or his spies, attend the Feast in disguise as Sindar. Eavesdropping on side conversations, they learn about the Kinslaying and Rebellion.


Episode 6: Questions
Morgoth returns to Angband and sends Sauron to corrupt the Second Children.

Galadriel admits to Melian that Morgoth murdered Finwë and stole the Silmarils, and hints at the Rebellion. She won’t mention the Kinslaying.

Melian shares this with Thingol, who is bothered, but doesn’t think it too serious to continue in friendship with the Noldor against their common enemy.

Orodreth marries Meril.

Some Sindar are questioning the gaps in the Noldor’s story. Speculation begins.


either Episode 6 or Episode 7:
Celeborn tells Thingol about Eärwen’s death. For now, Thingol thinks she died in the Darkening of Valinor.

Rumors about the Noldor spread through the Sindar. The rumors are even worse than the truth. (Show that demon dopplegangers are starting them.)

Celeborn and Galadriel plight their troth (or declare their love to each other).


Episode 7: The Truth Will Out
The rumors reach a head. Círdan tels them to Thingol, while Finarfin’s sons are in Doriath. When Thingol confronts them, Angrod angrily accuses the Fëanorians of Kinslaying and burning the ships.

Thingol bans Quenya, and all jewels except pearls. He sends the sons of Finarfin away, but not forever. Círdan and Thingol mourn for Olwë.

Fingolfin accepts the terms of the ban, to keep peace with the Sindar. But the Fëanorians are furious.


Episode 8: Dagor Aglareb
Finrod begins building Minas Tirith.

Earthquakes. Clouds of ash spread ominously over Ard-galen and Hithlum.

Morgoth and Gothmog unleash an army of Orcs. All the good guys must put aside their differences to unite against the assault. Forgiveness so they can work together is wise.

The Noldor set up the Siege of Angband.

Amras moves to Amon Ereb, far from his brothers. (can happen earlier)

Sauron works on inventing better armor and weapons?


Episode 9: Portents
Minas Tirith is complete. Finrod and Turgon travel to the Meres of Twilight. They receive dream messages from Ulmo warning that the peace will not last.

Angband: Sauron returns from Hildórien and debriefs.

Finrod seeks Thingol’s help. Thingol tells him about the caves of Narog, and sets up a meeting with the Dwarves to aid Finrod.

Ulmo shows Turgon the vale of Tumladen.


Episode 10: Accord and Separation
The Petty-Dwarves are driven out of Nargothrond by Dwarves of Eryd Luin, who lie to Finrod about it. He doesn’t know about the Petty-Dwarves.

Turgon’s people begin building Gondolin in secret. (Aredhel stays with Idril in Nevrast?)

Caranthir meets the Dwarves of the Blue Mountains. He insults them, and they decide to trade with Celegorm and Curufin instead.

A company of Orcs sneak round about Hithlum, and ambush the Noldor. They lose, but Morgoth was only testing the Elves. Sauron gets a new, mysterious job (breeding Dragons).


Episode 11: Hewer of Caves
Finrod and the Dwarves work on delving Nargothrond. Young Zirak offers to craft some beautiful jewelry for Felagund, but Finrod respects Thingol’s ban on jewels and has no desire to alienate the Sindar.

Turgon’s people continue building Gondolin in secret.

Círdan fortifies the Havens with Finrod’s help. Finrod builds Barad Nimras. Círdan desires to continue working with the Noldor, despite the Kinslaying.

Amras sabotages Curufin and Celegorm’s trade with the Dwarves by forbidding them from travelling through his lands.


Episode 12: The Hidden City
50 years later:

Turgon secretly moves his people to Tumladen. He establishes absolute secrecy, and nobody can leave. Aredhel disagrees with this.

Galadriel marries Celeborn.

Nargothrond is complete. Young Zirak presents Finrod Felagund with beautiful lamps, the same kind that light Menegroth. Finrod leaves Orodreth in Minas Tirith.

The Dwarves have moved their trade-road further north and established trade with Caranthir.

Angband: Villains make a cryptic reference to Men.


Episode 13: The Golden One
Young Glaurung escapes Angband and devastates the north. Fingon fights him back to Angband. Few Elves realize what a bad sign this is.

Turgon stays in Gondolin and does not fight. Thingol stays in Doriath and does not fight.

Telchar makes her last work – the Dragon-Helm – and gifts it to Azaghâl.
 
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Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
Oh, one other argument against delaying contact with Cirdan until Episode 2, is just out of logic: We ended Season 3 with Cirdan in the hills above Lake Mithrim, seconds away from sighting the Noldorin camp. But he wouldn't just stand there on a hill, staring at the Noldor without moving, for the hours or days it will take for Fingon to rescue Maedhros. That would be too silly. Cirdan will have gone down to meet them before Fingon returns, at the very latest.
 

amysrevenge

Well-Known Member
As I look at the outlines, and think back to past seasons, here's a thing that I really like, but seems to almost accidentally be developing for Sauron: he starts a lot of initiatives, but doesn't finish them off. Either they get abandoned for something new, or co-opted by someone else, or ripped from his hands by his boss. I really like that - he's a creative type, but he's all vision and no follow-through. He lacks discipline. He'll have to learn that later when he becomes his own boss (and even then he keeps on playing his cards too soon).
 

Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
Maybe, her role is an expression of her attitude towards reconciliation with or forgiving the Noldor? Perhaps forgive and reconcile, but don't make the mistake of trusting Feanorians. Or will she be a second mentor to Galadriel?

Do people think the second version of my outline is abridged enough now?
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
I would in a way like to have galadriel and her best friends daghter be friends too... Luthien will have her time when she becomes awesome, but before we have to show her as the person who has not yet crossed limits.

As for the hosts, i do not know what they expect, at one time we would want to write fully fledged out episode outlines, don't we?
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
I think that we will no doubt modify the episode outlines as a result of the pre-planning storyline sessions, but that there's no harm in having a 'work in progress' outline. I think that as we discuss things, the Hosts will likely change their mind about *when* in the season they want things to happen.
 

amysrevenge

Well-Known Member
Thinking about Melian/Galadriel/Luthien

It's a bit hard to wrap our heads (my head, anyway) around some of the familial relationships with immortals. Like, I'll always be at a different stage of life than my parents, or than my daughter. But (disregarding Maia whatever, apply to any Elf you like), Melian and Luthien are both normal grown-up adults for basically their whole lives (relatively speaking). Melian is the adult mother to child Luthien for what, less than a century? And then they are just both adults for centuries more. Such a different dynamic. I remember typing it sort of this way before somewhere on the forum, but the physical and mental differences between a 43 year old human and an 8 year old human are enormous. And they will still be enormous when they are 53 and 18, and when they are 63 and 28, and when they are (health permitting) 93 and 58. The difference between a 582 year old Elf and a 547 year old Elf? Effectively zero.

This explains a lot about why, for instance, the proposed mother of Nimloth would be willing to take off East. Nimloth has been a grown-up for centuries by then, she don't need her momma. They haven't had a parent/child relationship for centuries. The whole relationship is so different, hard to put a finger on. Like, there's love and respect and devotion, but it would have to be so different.
 

Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
I am extremely confused by these tangled threads overlapping each other. Can we please keep the frame discussion in the frame thread? I have not the least foggiest idea what anybody is talking about anymore.

I was trying to ask if any part of any of my outlines are in any way, at all, even slightly or partly acceptable, especially to the people in charge/control of the script writing team.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Arwen-in-the-Season-4-Frame discussion has been moved to the Frame Narrative Thread.
https://forums.signumuniversity.org/index.php?threads/session-4-03-frame-narrative-for-season-4.3048/page-3#post-23191

Obviously, a lot of these things overlap, which is one reason our conversations keep getting tangled. Should I create a separate thread for each storyline for this Season, rather than divide them up by session?

Edit: Faelivrin, I get the impression you are frustrated. You are specifically reaching out to the Script team. Nick has a two month old sick baby at home and has not been on these boards much lately, so chances are he has not yet seen your outlines. I did respond, saying that I thought it was good to have a working outline, but that I expect a lot of events to be moved around as we work through the pre-planning of the season. You are getting feedback here. At least four people besides me have responded to this thread in response to your outlines. Was there something specific that you felt needed commentary or approval at this stage?
 
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Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
No I don't think Nick has had a chance to read this thread. I was hoping to learn whether or not you consider there to be any worth in any part of my outline suggestions, since (in Nick's unavoidable absence) you are in charge of Scripting and of what is suggested to the Hosts. I do know that we already had outlines for the whole season.

I don't know what "there's no harm" means, because it's ambiguous and in some contects it appears to be a statement of firm rejection. I was most hoping to learn whether there might, maybe, be a possibility that any portion of any idea that I have suggested for Eol might, potentially, be considered as a possibility in some form, or if it has all been rejected.
 
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MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Eöl's storyline has not yet been discussed for Season 4, but we do plan to go over it during the pre-planning sessions coming up. You are aware that the Hosts tend to dislike the use of flashback, but they have not yet commented on how they intend to handle his re-introduction.
 

amysrevenge

Well-Known Member
For myself, I don't see how we can avoid flashback for Eol. Well, it's either flashback, or spoken exposition (boooo).
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Exactly - we have to step back in time to deal with him, and thus...out of sequence storytelling is highly likely.

But I know the Hosts dislike that, and the Eöl plotline is slotted for discussion in not the next Session, but the one after that, so we'll toss these ideas at them and see what happens.

I suspect they will re-evaluate the timing of Ulmo's dreams as the pre-planning progresses, but that's just a guess on my part.

We will have to revisit the outlines in light of all the pre-planning discussions. Since they haven't happened yet...I don't know what the result will be.
 

cellardur

Active Member
Ok, so Sauron gets the dragon-breeding job?
I am just catching up with this podcast and the dragon breeding job is beyong Sauron. He may have the idea and he may inform Morgoth of what to do, comparing it to his werewolves as the host said, but breeding beings of such power would require Morgoth's personal touch.
Also, how should Luthien fit into all this?
Luthien strikes me as someone, who doesn't get involved. She is happy to live her life without getting embroiled with the Noldor or their conflict. She seems quite out of the loop. It's only when things personally involve her does she get involved. She is unlike Galadriel and never seemed to desire the power, or rule of any lands. She was happy dancing and singing in Doriath. She certainly has little knowledge of Celegorm and Curufin.

Listening to the Podcast and one thing I disagree with the host about is having important characters being captured by Morgoth, we already have this.
1. Maedhros captured and returns stronger than ever.
2. Gwindor captured and returns broken.
3. Hurin captured and unwittingly helps Morgoth.
4. Maeglin captured and betrays everyone.

That's all four examples and they will be with characters we care about. To have other named characters go through the same thing will simply take away the impact when its characters we know and care about. I personally think the focus on those captured by Morgoth initially should be the reactions of the main cast and how they treat them. Then when it gets to our main characters we can focus on how they cope with their release.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
I am just catching up with this podcast and the dragon breeding job is beyong Sauron. He may have the idea and he may inform Morgoth of what to do, comparing it to his werewolves as the host said, but breeding beings of such power would require Morgoth's personal touch.

Luthien strikes me as someone, who doesn't get involved. She is happy to live her life without getting embroiled with the Noldor or their conflict. She seems quite out of the loop. It's only when things personally involve her does she get involved. She is unlike Galadriel and never seemed to desire the power, or rule of any lands. She was happy dancing and singing in Doriath. She certainly has little knowledge of Celegorm and Curufin.

Listening to the Podcast and one thing I disagree with the host about is having important characters being captured by Morgoth, we already have this.
1. Maedhros captured and returns stronger than ever.
2. Gwindor captured and returns broken.
3. Hurin captured and unwittingly helps Morgoth.
4. Maeglin captured and betrays everyone.

That's all four examples and they will be with characters we care about. To have other named characters go through the same thing will simply take away the impact when its characters we know and care about. I personally think the focus on those captured by Morgoth initially should be the reactions of the main cast and how they treat them. Then when it gets to our main characters we can focus on how they cope with their release.
I don’t think Luthien should be out of the loop. At all. It doesn’t really endear the audience to have a central character who seems like they’re a cloudcuckoolander.

Maybe Morgoth’s tortures get worse over time with desperation and hate, and worse with anybody who’s interacted with Gondolin, since Morgoth fears and hates Turgon most out of all the Noldor, because he knows that his doom will be due to Turgon’s line.
 
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