Session 3.08 - S3 Ep3: Meanwhile in Beleriand

So the Sindar have writing? I guess no one writes in Quenya.
They both have writing. Feanor invents his own set of runes, Tengwar, as did... Rumil? Or is it Rumil's alphabet that Feanor just improves? Sorry, books are in boxes and I can't check.
 
They both have writing. Feanor invents his own set of runes, Tengwar, as did... Rumil? Or is it Rumil's alphabet that Feanor just improves? Sorry, books are in boxes and I can't check.
Tengwar was developed by Fëanor based on Rumil's runes.
 
(Ok I googled it and found that Rumil invented runes called sarati. I can't describe the difference between them and Tengwar but my guess is somebody in the forum can. One interesting fact about Sarati is that it can be written in several directions - top to bottom, left to right, right to left and boustrophedon which means every other line is in the opposite direction.)
Sorry this is a detour.
 
True! The Dwarves are crazy about Daeron's Runes... just as the Sindar suddenly become infatuated with subterranean Halls... both peoples suddely find common ground... Daeron should be made one whom the Dwarves suddenly like and approach. Maybe it could be Daeron who convinces Thingol to take a look at the Dwarven halls?

Well, the Green Elves are always described as an unfriendly and xenophobic tribe. They later deny the Edain to wander their lands and even beg Thingol for support to get rid of the men and they massacre the Dwarves after the sacking of Menegroth...


Maeglin was indeed an Elf of evil temper and dark mind, and he
had a lust and grudge of his own to satisfy; but even so he did
what he did only after torment and under a cloud of fear. Some
of the Nandor, who were allowed to be Celbin, were not any
better.

so quite several Nandor were... at least of questionable character. Saeros was no exception...

when the Nandor were recognized
as kinsfolk of Lindarin origin and speech (as was still
recognizable), they were received into the class of Celbin.

So the Nandor and their origin and with whom they were akin seems to have been debatable at first. But after the Sindar were sure they were close relatives they seem to have welcomed them and Denethor became Thingols friend and later many Nandor came to settle in east doriath.

The old name
Nandor was however only remembered by the Noldorin
historians in Aman; and they knew nothing of the later history
of this folk, recalling only that the leader of the defection before
the crossing of the dread Hithaeglir was named Lenwe (i.e.
Denweg). The Sindarin loremasters remembered the Nandor
as Danwaith, or by confusion with the name of their leader
Denwaith.

These names were however later replaced among the Sindar
by the name 'Green-elves', at least as far as the inhabitants of
Ossiriand were concerned; for they withdrew themselves and
took as little part in the strife with Morgoth as they could. This
name, S Laegel, pl. Laegil, class-plural Laegrim or Laegel(d)-
rim, was given both because of the greenness of the land of
Lindon, and because the Laegrim clothed themselves in green as
an aid to secrecy. This term the Noldor translated into Quenya
Laiquendi; but it was not much used.

So the Greenelves did not call themselves Nandor, Greenelves or Laiquendi. They called themselves Lindi or Danians.
Nandor was an old term used by the Elves who had went on to the west, whom the Nandor had left on the march. Laiquendi was a Name the Noldor had invented as a translation of the Name the Sindar had given their kinsmen. and it was never really used.In daily use the inhabitants of Beleriand spoke Sindarin and would have used the term Laegrim.

Now these were a woodland folk and had no weapons of metal,
and the coming of the fell beasts of the North affrayed them
sorely, as the Naugrim reported. Therefore Denethor, the son of
Dan, hearing rumour of the might of Thingol and his majesty,
and of the peace of his realm, gathered such host of his scattered
folk as he could and led them over the mountains into
Beleriand.

So agreed. The Greenelves had not yet met the Orcs. At least it#s not sure what kind of creatures had troubled them so much. But the troubles seem to have been sincere... it wasn't just a few animal attacks... they were truly afraid of their existence and fled to Beleriand out of pure despair, just following a mere rumor about a mighty king who might offer protection...
actually I think Denethor should say exactly these words when he's meting the Sindar. So maybe this time it#s the other way around? The Sindar are unfriendly at first and the Greenelves are eased, they feel like Thingol could be their saviour.
 
Rumil invented the Sarati in Valinor - it's the first writing system.

Sample:
sarati_phonetic_sample.gif


Fëanor invented Tengwar in 1250 in the Year of the Trees.

Sample:
350px-tengwar_samplesvg.png


Daeron invented Runes (Cirth) in Year 1300 of the Trees. That is the same year Menegroth was founded.

Sample:
1_big.jpg



Any of these writing systems could be adapted to a variety of languages. They're...alphabets, basically.
 
Ok so I've changed the outline again and again and I'm not sure every change has been in the right direction. I hope it will be possible to present it to the execs and that they have time to read it, and maybe they will see some worth in it. Otherwise, it was a fun exercise and I learned something from it. :)
 
I will put it in the Episode Notes that the Execs see, and bring it to their attention. Whether or not they discuss it in the Session will be up to them. But at the very least, I'll make sure the summary for *this* episode makes it into the PowerPoint.
 
I will put it in the Episode Notes that the Execs see, and bring it to their attention. Whether or not they discuss it in the Session will be up to them. But at the very least, I'll make sure the summary for *this* episode makes it into the PowerPoint.
Thanks! Make sure you get the latest version! :)
 
Excellent post! The only comments I have are on this:

Well, the Green Elves are always described as an unfriendly and xenophobic tribe. They later deny the Edain to wander their lands and even beg Thingol for support to get rid of the men and they massacre the Dwarves after the sacking of Menegroth...
Not only do they deny the Edain permission to roam Ossiriand, they tell Finrod that since the Men hunt animals and cut trees they plan on attacking if he doesn't get them out of Ossiriand at once. So... yeah, not friendly folk.

The Dwarves had murdered Thingol and sacked Doriath, so I wouldn't hold it against Beren or his allies. But the Green Elves didn't participate -- he got the Ents to help him instead. (Quite a lot out of the 1977 Silm chapter about the Fall of Doriath was an editorial invention by Christopher Tolkien, because JRR Tolkien basically crossed out everything he'd written about the first sack of Doriath, said "This doesn't work!" and never replaced it. :confused: But one thing JRRT did say was that the Ents were the ones who helped Beren kill the Dwarf army.
 
The Green Elves may become xenophobic after the slaughter we're going to depict here. Maybe they feel betrayed by outsiders in some way in the battle that kills Denethor?
 
Probably for the best. I still don't have a firm idea of an episode arch/plot for Beleriand in episode 3.
 
I'm a bit concerned about the story of the Lindi. It needs to be tied to Lenwë, and we haven't seen him for a season.
The way things are - and that goes for the outline of the execs as well as for my alternative - they appear for a short time and then Denethor dies. We learn nothing about Lenwë and don't get to know Denethor. Still, they are important to this season's story.
I'd like to avoid showing Lenwë dying but if we're going to paint the Lindi as desperate refugees there has to be some reason for them to feel that way, and his death could be one factor.
Could one of the Angband guys or Morgoth himself be behind this? If we show Morgoth leaving Angband and then have Denethor talking about some kind of evil or corruption or something, we could get the feeling that Morgoth has created a situation for the Nandor that's impossible to live in. This would also be interesting to have in mind when the Men arrive later. And there are other examples of Morgoth corrupting elves or sowing dissension.
 
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Ok I've changed the order of things in my episode outline. It's now a kind of 'descent into darkness', beginning in peace and ending in horror.

1. Storm of Uinen.
2. We see Círdan, see the life of the Falathrim, their settlements, ships etc. This is long before the Kinslaying and certainly long before Círdan hears about the crime. He has completed a new large ship. A visiting Sindar - let's say it's Beleg - is impressed and says he'll make sure to tell King Thingol about it. 'Yes, tell Elwë', Círdan says.
3. We go to Thingol and Melian, and their court. Luthien dances under the stars and Daeron sings. (Luthien has to shine from the very beginning, we have to fall in love with her at least a bit even if she's not going to do anything for ages and we will hardly see her (but we will show her reacting to Menegroth etc). Daeron has to be a star. In these times of peace, he will (well, apart from Thingol and Melian, and Luthien), be the person at court that people talk about and admire. This will put him in a position which makes him develop fantasies about himself and Luthien. We should at some point learn that he has invented writing.)
4. We see Eöl who has some kind of contact with Mîm. This is to establish that Eöl has contact with dwarves of all kinds, and to show that Mîm lives in what is to become Menegroth, and to show two loners. They don't have to be friends - in fact, I'm not sure that's within their capacity. Also, since the Dwarves of the Blue Mts. and Eöl will be friends, it is perhaps best if Eöl and Mîm don't like each other - the petty dwarf and the Ered Luin dwarves will not be friends and a friendship between Eöl and the Ered Luin dwarves would be tainted by him befriending Mîm.
5. Angband: (Not sure how much of this happened earlier, I missed a session) SSNOP details, orcs being prepped for release. Morgoth does some management by fear, letting his servants know that no one has a safe position: Sauron loses his job, is sent to find out what happened to Ungoliant, but also and perhaps primarily to map the Sindar movements, where they live etc. Boldog is put in charge of the orc project. His position is under Gothmog who is made operative general of the army that will be created. (I don't think a lot of time has to be spent on Angband. Boldog's relation to Mairon is probably that he thinks Mairon is a loser and he himself a winner, but they won't have much contact at this stage. Mairon is filled with the desire to prove himself in Melkor’s eyes and hate against Gothmog. (By handling Mairon roughly, Morgoth actually provokes Mairon to step further towards a complete fall.)
6. Beleg and Mablung encounter orcs for the first time. The two elves happen to come across some sorry looking beasts wandering - early versions of orcs. These orcs run away.(Where is this - close to Eithel Sirion?) Suddenly the starlit dark is disrupted by three volcanic explosions to the north. The Thangoridrim peaks are created. The time of peace is over.
 
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Part of the trick is that 'days of peace' is not a story. We need to figure out what is happening in Doriath, not just introduce all our characters. The connection to the Havens is the beginning of a story...we could run with that. Also, Eol's reaction to Thingol's court should serve to introduce conflict!
 
Well. In times of peace among humans, we all start to get *super* pissy about really minor petty issues. Whither Elves?
 
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